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Is the mystique of Brooklyn finally getting squelched? Not long after Brian Williams poked fun at the New York Time’s obsession with Brooklyn, food writer Mimi Sheraton shares these choice words with Capital New York:

I’m from Brooklyn, but it would take a lot to get me there for dinner. When Lundy’s was Lundy’s, I’d be there. When Gargiulo’s was Gargiulo’s, I went. I certainly went to Gage and Tollner. There were one-of-a-kind things there, but so far anywhere I’ve been to there has not been worth the trip from Manhattan. I haven’t been to Al di la, because you have to wait on line, and I’m not going to Brooklyn to wait on line. Not when there are 10 good Italian restaurants in Greenwich Village. The Times has certainly been very exaggerated in its Brooklyn coverage, because most of them live there. They begin to see it as being better than it is because it’s so close to them. I would go to Brooklyn if it were exceptional.

Chow Time: Mimi Sheraton on What’s Changed Since Lutece [Capital via Eater NY]
Photo by kathyylchan


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  1. The fact is, there used to be a considerable amount of snob appeal in living in Manhattan. Terms like “bridge-and-tunnel” were sneeringly tossed around to deride anyone not privileged enough to live in there. People (usually from Brooklyn, Indiana, Nebraska or some other non-Manhattan place) who had clawed their way to Manhattanite status highly valued that status (even if in reality their actual residence was a sad shoebox of a studio).

    The glamour attached to Manhattan isn`t what it once was. So there is no surprise that there is now a considerable squawk from those who spent their lives trying to be Manhattanites, as the “bridge-and-tunnelers” acquire a slight cachet of their own.

  2. Wow is she totally unaware there is more than one Italian restaurant in Brooklyn that’s probably even better than Al Di La? In fact I’d bet money that Park Slope has others that would be thought of as better.

    Personally I don’t care if the Times or media outlets love the borough or hate it. The fact is though, you will find more over hyped eateries in Manhattan than you will in Brooklyn. And the same could be said for it not being worth the subway ride into Manhattan for a lot of them too.

  3. “Brooklyn is one of the five boroughs and would be nothing without the other four”

    On the contrary, Brooklyn could well be a city in it’s own right had the mistake of 1898 never been made 🙂

  4. She reaches the right conclusion for painfully wrong reasons.

    It’s true that the Brooklyn brand is ridiculously over-wrought, and it’s true that’s because a lot of writers just moved here and have the zeal of the convert.

    And Al di la has definitely gone downhill in the past few years and is not the unusually good value it once was.

    But her knowledge of the NYC dining scene is archaic and outdated, and the idea that Brooklyn as a whole is some great journey (when she’d never say that about Rao’s, which she probably still would claim to love, and is much further from her home), just doesn’t work anymore even as faux-Manhattan-snobbery. She really is resting on her laurels.

  5. It’s funny Mimi should say that. I feel exactly the same way about Manhattan. It must be nice to be a restaurant reviewer w an unlimited budget and never have to wait for a table. But she shouldn’t confuse her own privilege w the quality of the food.

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BFC Partners, the developer of the new building at 150 Myrtle Avenue (and a Brownstoner advertiser as of today), is courting Apple to locate its first Brooklyn store on the ground floor, said partner Joseph Ferrara. The tower is expected to be finished Spring 2009. “Aesthetically, I think our building really does fit their design guidelines,” he said, adding that he just put a call out to the company but hasn’t heard a response. Otherwise, Ferrara is thinking some type of organic market and deli. CRES Chief Executive Chris Havens said Apple is having a hard time finding the perfect Brooklyn location, not wanting to make its grand entrance in the average shopping mall cubby. What do you think, would Toren (rendered out the wazoo above) make a suitable throne?
SOM-designed Toren About to Hit the Market [Brownstoner]


What's Your Take? Leave a Comment

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  1. I think the message board is broken. Where happened to 4:50 (deleted?) and what is with 8:04 post above?

    I also think the Apple store should open somewhere near Atlantic and court. It makes the most sense in terms of foot traffic from local residents, metrotech and courts as well major subway lines. In addition, there will be trader joes and urban outfitters nearby.

  2. 12:37–I agree that some kind of underpass/overpass is needed once this, two Oros, The Flatteryiron Building, and the Avalon are all occupied. That’s alot of residents that will be heading over to Jay Street to catch the trains every morning–and Flatbush/Tillary traffic doesn’t exactly move well at that time to begin with.

  3. Most sensible thing in the area is an underground passage with retail shopping like in many cities. This way it will be safer for pedestrians to cross Flatbush. How come the builders/developers hardly consider this?

  4. So far as “bang for the buck” is concerned, the Albermarle listing is definitely the most interesting item this week. You can’t put too much faith in photos though. You gotta get out there and attend those open houses.
    And I’m there, baby!
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 7:53 AM
    Why is 1.7 million for a Fort Green brownstone considered “underpriced”? Why is everyone convinced there must be a rent-controlled tenant? 1.7 is alot of money, not some bargain — I’m not convinced all those 2+ million homes really sell at that price, or perhaps they are in pristine condition and this one is not (perfectly fine, but not in condition for someone who thinks nothing of shelling out 2 million for a house).
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:29 AM
    $1.7m is definitely the wrong price for this house. Either it needs tremendous work, or they are trying to generate a bidding war, or they have problems with their tenants like RC. Unless they are just going for a straight up bidding war it would be nice if they disclosed the problems with the house. This agency knows the value of houses in this area. They do not co-broke though so most agents around town won’t have a chance to sell it only their agents. Although perhaps they tell sellers they co-broke?? They really never let anybody show their listings.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:34 AM
    Oops, I take back the above comment. Just looked at the layout of the Fort Green house and the 3rd floor is divided into 2 studios, and the 4th floor is a 3rd apartment. The duplex isn’t configured very well for family living either. I think this would take some work to get it into shape, and 1.7 is high, even if it is delivered vacant.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:35 AM
    Sorry, Anon 8:35am and 8:29 are me, and someone posted in between. I was adding to the 8:29 remark.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:36 AM
    The Ft Greene house will be worthless after AY. Someone is going to lose their shirt.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:53 AM
    Enough with your AY ranting. If you have a point (not sure) why don’t you try to speak clearly about it instead of just whining like this about AY all the time? AY is a mess. But it’s not FG’s mess. It’s Brooklyn’s mess. And the issues most people are concerned with are not their housing prices plummenting. They are concerned with traffic throughout the borough, safety for pedestrians at major intersections around the arena, eminent domain’s unlawfulness, the way the politicians ignored the public, the fact that the entire borough needs more schools, the fact that city and state taxpayers are underwriting a project to get a company rich at the expense of landowners who will be pushed out, and so on. Obviously if a developer is going to put up housing he thinks he will make money. And that’s why housing prices are not the issue. I would argue the opposite is true. There is already a lot of displacement of poor people in and around Prospect Heights and the addition of luxury housing will only translate in to higher sales prices and higher rents. This is an actual major concern of AY opponents. You rich people will do just fine. But still please oppose AY because it’s wrong for the city and wrong for the state.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 9:41 AM
    12 years ago you couldn’t walk through Ft. Greene without getting a basketball sized gunshot wound in your chest. Now look. Better get on those PLG houses cause in another year or two they’ll be over the top. And who in the world thinks $1.7M is a decent price to pay for a house? Wake up. If your making that much $, buy a couple houses somewhere else! I love Brooklyn as much as the next guy, but get real.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 9:41 AM
    Agreed 8:53. This whole discussion is academic in light of Atlantic Yards. That house won’t be worth half a mil once AY is completed.
    Posted by: Jeff at May 12, 2007 9:54 AM
    “Better get on those PLG houses cause in another year or two they’ll be over the top.”
    I’ve been hearing this for at least the past 20 years. Get real.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:01 AM
    My sister and her boyfriend lived in PLG until one day three guys broke into their apartment. They put a sheet over my sister’s head and shot her, killing her, and then fled the apartment with whatever money they could find. It galls me that more is not done to stop these crimes. My sister did not deserve to die simply because she lived in PLG.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:05 AM
    Better buy in Marine Park before summer or you’ll never get in for less than 1M. And if you wait until next year, there are some 1M condos in downtown Glens Falls that’ll be 2M.
    Of course 1.7M is chump change for a house, isn’t everybody making 800K now? And next year they’ll be pulling down 1.3M. Every last reader of this blog, no doubt.
    This is all very funny … but what will be funnier still is what these folks will do after emptying their bank accounts and buying a fixer-upper with a liar loan at 10X income — when prices go down 50%.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 12:16 PM
    And if prices go down 50%, then they’ll go down 90% everywhere in the vicinity of Atlantic Yards. You know why?
    ATLANTIC
    YARDS
    EFFECT
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 12:19 PM
    I’m not sure I understand why, but these AYE posts are growing on me. Maybe it’s because all the otherwise or previously sane people have drunk the kool-aid.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 1:25 PM
    The PLG troll is back!
    Especially touching is how the PLG troll pretends to be the brother of the young woman who was shot years ago by the business associates of her drug dealer boyfriend. This by the way, is something the troll has done many times on various websites. He pretends to be the brother of the victim, then pretending to be others, attacks anybody who says anything against the silliness of using this one particular crime as a broad sweeping statement against an entire neighborhood.
    Likely the troll has emerged once more because of the really lovely article on PLG in the NY Times Real Estate section tomorrow.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 5:48 PM
    Nobody is saying anything about Windsor Terrace 2-story being nearly $1.4 million. Isn’t that close to Park Slope prices, for per square foot? I knew people liked Windsor Terrace but jeepers, that’s higher than I thought WT would be.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 6:02 PM
    Your attitude might be very different if it had been your sister, 5:48pm
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:06 PM
    You’re right 5:48pm. Victims of violent crime should learn to keep their mouths shut.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:07 PM
    “…because of the really lovely article on PLG in the NY Times Real Estate section tomorrow…”
    You don’t mean the one about the Steinke’s, I assume. Which article are you talking about?
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:12 PM
    and anonymous, i know exactly whose death you are talking about on here, and you failed to mention that the boyfriend was dealing marijuana on the side and the police believe that that had something to do w/ it…so really PLG had no effect on the death but the boyfriend’s behavior might have.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:13 PM
    “..failed to mention that the boyfriend was dealing marijuana”
    Yeah, you’re right. She had it coming! Jesus Christ, what a bunch of insensitive jerks you all are.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:15 PM
    Nice point. It was the drug traffic in PLG that caused her death, not PLG itself. That’s comforting. Makes me feel downright warm and fuzzy inside…
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:16 PM
    So is the so-called “troll” really the brother of the homicide victim? If so then I can kind of understand his anger against the world. I hope he gets the help he needs. Certainly he needs someone to talk to about this. And clearly this blog isn’t the best forum for this sort of the helping hand that he needs. But it brings up a good point…where do buyers go to get good crime stat info? The precincts are so full of it and crime is so underreported citywide because of their BS.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:44 PM
    I think what happened Ms. Sargeant is sickening. I also think it is misplaced to try to scare people about PLG with the account of her murder without explaining that her boyfriend was a drug dealer who dealt out of their apartment. That’s the cause of the robbery and murder, not PLG. I’m not saying there are not crime issues, but that is misplaced anger at the neighborhood, when it should be on the murderers and the boyfriend whose side business put everyone at risk.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:45 PM
    Yes, we’ve already established that it wasn’t PLG that killed her. Rather, it was PLG drug traffic that killed her. That makes me feel so much better.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:46 PM
    hey troll…noone established it was drug trafficking in PLG that killed her…noone knows why she was killed. but what can be established is her boyfriend’s drug dealing put her at risk….that has nothing to do w/ PLG except that the boyfriend was living in PLG with her. you are trying to impugn a whole neighborhood as drug traffickers by the actions of her own boyfriend..can’t have it both ways…now please go away so we can talk about real estate…which is the topic of this blog, and not your pathetic attempts to misinform people. I’ll beat the shit out of you you son of a bitch if I ever get half a chance.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:47 PM
    “…that has nothing to do w/ PLG except that the boyfriend was living in PLG with her…”
    And drug dealing in East New York has nothing to do with East New York except that it happens there.
    And keep your pathetic threats to yourself, jerk.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 8:48 PM
    This thread is a new low. Shame!
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 9:28 PM
    Re: Windsor Terrace–a smaller but very beautiful house on Howard Place (great block but maybe not as nice as Sherman because it fronts the school)just sold for $1.4 million, while there’s another very lovely Sherman Street house down the block from this one for sale for over $1.8 million (bigger yard and has an apartment upstairs to defray mortgage, tho not by much).
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:02 PM
    What’s a new low is that the PLG thugs who inhabit this blog have actually resorted to threats of physical violence.
    Just keep crossing those lines…eventually you’ll get caught.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:05 PM
    There are references to Tiesha Sargent’s parents, but not to any siblings. For example:
    http://www.gothamist.com/2006/06/25/tiesha_sargeant.php
    How pathetic that this creep defames her memory by falsly claiming to be her non-existant brother.
    Posted by: anon at May 12, 2007 10:14 PM
    For what it’s worth, I saw a TV spot about this tragedy not long after it happened and there was a short interview with someone identified as her brother. Maybe it was a step brother or something, but they called him her “brother”.
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:18 PM
    No, what’s pathetic is that you PLG creeps will join together to gang rape the memory of this poor woman just because someone criticized your rotten neighborhood. What a pitiful bunch of losers!
    Posted by: Anonymous at May 12, 2007 10:21 PM
    Yeah, I remember a thread not long ago which was the exact same with this cretin making the exact same comments. Mr. B. shut down the thread that time.
    In fact, I wonder how many of the above comments are from the same creep.
    Posted by: anon at May 13, 2007 12:06 AM
    It has happened at least once before, and probably more. I know I remember one earlier thread where Ms. Sargeant’s brother posted, only to be attacked on all sides by these idiots (I’m assuming there’s more than one, but one never knows). That episode was truly shameful, and while I don’t remember whether it was terminated prematurely by Mr. B, it certainly should have been. Frankly, I think it’s worse this time because the idiots have resorted to threats of physical violence.

  5. Guest at 4:50–

    We can argue whether or not Atlantic Avenue is good for retail (I happen to think it’s great, as apparently do Trader Joe’s, Urban Outfitters, numerous boutiques and restaurants, etc), but you can’t say that it’s inconvenient.

    Atlantic and Court (which is where the Trader Joe’s is opening) is 4-5 blocks from the 2,3,4,5,M, and R trains at Borough Hall. It’s nothing if not convenient and accessible.

    And, of course, as you mentioned, it’s pretty close to the F line as well.

    Besides, rich people (I am not one, unfortunately) are abundant around these parts. It’s the nexus of Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, and Boerum Hill–some of the most affluent neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

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