City Council OK's School for 'Green Church' Site
After the pastor of the Bay Ridge United Methodist Church shockingly sold out last year, developer Abe Betesh tore down the treasured building to make way for a 70-unit condo development. Then the market collapsed and all of a sudden the philistine became open to doing a deal with the School Construction Authority initially proposed…
After the pastor of the Bay Ridge United Methodist Church shockingly sold out last year, developer Abe Betesh tore down the treasured building to make way for a 70-unit condo development. Then the market collapsed and all of a sudden the philistine became open to doing a deal with the School Construction Authority initially proposed by one of the demolition’s biggest opponents, Council Member Vincent Gentile. Last week, reports the Brooklyn Paper, the City Council signed off on a plan to build a 680-seat elementary school where the church used to stand. “[Bay Ridge] is home to dedicated teachers and inspiring students,” Gentile said in a statement. “And now we’re a step closer to getting them the space and resources they deserve!” Happy ending? A school’s certainly better than condos, but the tear-down is still unforgiveable.
‘Green Church’ School Approved [Brooklyn Paper]
Green Church Goes Educational [Brownstoner]
Green Church Can’t Go Co-op…Yet [Brownstoner]
The Green Church Bites the Dust [Brownstoner]
On to the Afterlife for Green Church [Brownstoner]
Photo by Ben Muessig for Brooklyn Paper
Benson I applaud you! Finally someone else calls Jon out on his Bullshit!
Thanks Benson!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end…
Honestly benson- take a deep breath and stop. Everytime someone tries to talk reasonably to you you go off, you put words in their mouth, you rant about Jon- you need to stop already.
1. Churches hold unique positions in their community, and part of that is trust. they get special tax breaks and leeway in order to conduct their business. Those special privileges constitute, in my opinion, a responsiblility to that community, not just to their parishioners. After all, despite not paying property taxes, churches still make use of streets, infrastructure, police and fire services, etc.
2. The pastor is guilty of high-handedness and arrogance. Hardly great attributes in a clergyman. He is guilty of undercutting his own mission because he did not care if he alienated his community and he destroyed an irreplaceable landmark despite the efforts of the community to come up with alternatives. If you feel the congregation was not supported by the community, perhaps you should be asking, why not?
3. This is a blog- not a newspaper. There is a difference and you need to understand ,instead of constantly attacking Jon and whining about his lack of critical analysis. You seem to think Jon owes you something- get over it.
4. You want to talk about higher ground? Who starts off the conversation by calling preservationists intellectually bankrupt? And you then expect everyone else to be more polite than you are? Good luck with that.
5. You’ve been going after MM quite a bit lately- from ranting on actual posts to accusing her of things that are so outlandish and ridiculous I have to wonder at your critical analysis abilities, not jon’s. And when she offers the hand of friendship you slap it down because she doesn’t agree with you. People can argue without being enemies.It’s part of what makes posting here fun, actually.
I like you a great deal benson. I think you have a good heart and you stick up for what you believe. I hope you don’t stop posting here and that you come tonight to rope. I’ve heard you look quite dapper in your borsalino.
Benson, forget it. I’m done.
Montrose;
Are you kidding me, or what?
On one hand, you tell me that it is not your place to call out folks for hitting below the belt with personal attacks, smears and just overall rancor. In the meantime,you single ME out for labelling a MOVEMENT “intellectually bankrupt”.
Double standard much there, Montrose?
I do not expect journalistic standards. I do expect “simple decency”, however. If you are going to publicly accuse someone of something, some simple fact-checking and fair play might be in order, or so my values tell me so.
You also know damn well that I have been on Mr. B.’s case about this on other issues too. Who has been consistently telling him that he ought to invite a Fedder developer on this blog to explain their side of the story? This has nothing to do with the fact that this time his target is a clergyman. It has to do with his preservationist mafioso mentality, as ENY put it so well.
I swear to you, you will not see me on this site for a long, long time. It’s become a piece of garbage. He rags on some right-wing talk show loon for his stupid take on Williamsburg, when he does exactly the same thing.
Benson, I’m sorry you feel that way, but I still consider you a friend. I just don’t understand why you insist on journalistic standards from a non-journalistic entity.
For the record, I never called Etson anything. I happen to agree with his statements about the mission of the Church, and like any good neo-Episcopalian, can flip through the Book of Common Prayer with the best of them. That doesn’t have anything to do with ragging on the pastor of this church, which I have not done. It is not my place or responsibility to be the den mother here. I am not Mother Montrose, no matter how people joke about it. I’m sorry if that disappoints you, and lessens me in your estimation.
Jon has raked a lot of developers, homeowners, institutions, politicians, real estate brokers, and countless others, over the coals in the last few years. Some deservedly so, some not. There have been very few demands from anyone insisting on fairness and getting the rakees to defend themselves. This is a blog, not 60 Minutes, not the Washington Post. As popular as this blog is, it is appeals to a very small demographic and is not a household name, and I would bet the pastor of the Bay Ridge Church never even heard of it, neither have countless other targets of Brownstoner’s ire. Why should they bother to respond? And tangentally, why should Jon have to feel as if he can’t spend his time running all of his business ventures the way he chooses to? Maybe running a Flea empire puts food on the table, chasing down developers or even pastors does not, and so therefore cannot be a large part of the business day, not even a phone call or an email.
I think you are doubly offended because the target is a clergyman, and as such, is not usually subject to adverse scrutiny about his motives or the workings of his church. I agree he is deserving of decency and respect, but not blind faith that he couldn’t possibly be wrong. I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye on this, so it’s probably better to leave it, hopefully, without rancor.
Bob;
I suppose that we can get into an argument about whether you were calling a rose by another name. In my book, this statement – ” Have you been so brainwashed by having superstitious nonsense drilled into you that you can’t conceive of wrongdoing by a member of the clergy? ” made me into an unquestioning simpleton.
Where exactly did I say that this pastor was beyond examination? What I did say is that before judgemental words like “venal”, “greedy” and “philistine” are used, the facts of the situation ought to be examined, and the man (and congregation) should be able to explain their side of the story. When I was a kid, this type of thing was called “simple decency”. Montrose makes the assertion that Mr. B doesn’t have the staff for this type of thing. Really? All it would have taken is an e-mail or phone call to the pastor asking them to write up something explaining their side.
I’ve just had it with this site.
Benson,
I never called you a simpleton–you write far too well for such a label to be appropriate. I’ll stand by everything I DID write and I am appalled by your sanctimonious [and, I suspect, disingenuous] outrage over anyone’s questioning a clergyman’s motives.
Sam and others,
1) It is true the Church could have rented out space to other congregations etc. But these arrangements are not easy to come by and would not bring in enough revenue to make a major difference to the Church’s finances. An additional congregation would be @ $2000/ month based on our experience.
2) The argument that because they are tax-exempt Churches owe something to ‘the community’ is inconsistent how other non-taxpaying groups are treated generally. For example, individuals who do not pay income or property taxes (because of low income, or not owning property) are not regarded as ‘owing’ anything more or denied rights because of this fact. Why should that not be the case with non-profits also?
Yours Barbarically,
etson
Montrose;
Please don’t call me friend. I’ve had it with this type of nonsense.
So, is that all Sam was doing, and I am the only shrill one, eh? Calling a pastor venal and greedy, and not even bothering to make a case for it is Ok in your book then? Calling Etson a semi-barbarian is also OK I suppose? Bob Marvin telling me that I’m just some brain-washed simpleton isn’t shrill in your book ? Well, I’ve been educated.
As for Mr. B., you defend all of his actions.
I’ve had it. Good luck shouting “amen” to each other.