Clinton Hill Coops
I’ve been looking to buy a one br in the Clinton Hill Coops for a few weeks. Let me start by saying I don’t think they look like projects; the interiors are huge for what your paying; the maintenance is worth it in my opinion, as I’m sacred sh*tless of the new condo developments in…
I’ve been looking to buy a one br in the Clinton Hill Coops for a few weeks. Let me start by saying I don’t think they look like projects; the interiors are huge for what your paying; the maintenance is worth it in my opinion, as I’m sacred sh*tless of the new condo developments in the hood. With that said: my search started on both campuses (there is one bt Lafayette and Greene and one between Myrtle and Clinton). Though some seem to prefer the south campus, I have decided I would much rather be closer to Myrtle Avenue where there is much more going on in the way of shopping and restaurants, etc. Here’s where I’m looking for some advice: there are several units that have been “renovated” either by the sponsor or by private sellers. The asking on these units is on average $335K (some higher, some a little lower). My issue with these units is the renovations are sort of cheap and ugly. On the plus side though, they are move-in ready, but I would want to do some renovating or at least some updating myself. On the other hand, there are a couple of units that are not “renovated” but are in good shape. The average asking is much lower, around 310K. Do people think it’s smarted to buy a place for a lot less and have cash left over to do your own renovating or is it smarted to pay more and have a move-in-ready place that you can decorate to your taste?
Actually, if you are doing floors, you will want to do them first, before you move in, and if doing floors in kitchen and bath, before you renovate those rooms.
Sure you can do it for 20K – the question is whether you can do what you like for 20K. This board can’t answer that for you – you need to take measurements and go to kitchen and bath supply stores and appliance stores, look online, price stuff that you like, and talk to contractors about labor costs.
I think the reason I prefer the already renovated is that I know I have expensive taste, and that would cost a lot more. If I can only afford a budget reno, I’d rather let someone else go through the hassle of doing it and pay them for it. I’ll save my effort for when I can splurge.
And, if not losing money when you sell is at all a concern, I wouldn’t take advice from someone who thinks it smart to buy any place you think of selling in 3(!) years – you can’t count on getting out without a loss – after you pay closing costs, and the flip tax this building has. You’d need to count on a fair amount of appreciation in a few years to cover all that. And that’s before you take into account renovation costs. I realize that some people will spend money they will never recoup on sale just to have a nice place to live – but others see the whole transaction as something they at least want to come out even on when they sell.
I think the reason many people do cheap kitchen renos is because they know they will be moving on in the forseeable future, and they know you often don’t recoup the cost of an expensive kitchen or bath reno based on doing the reno alone – you only do if the market generally is going up fast. Also, the smaller the apartment, the less it seems to go up from a renovation, at least as I’ve seen it in my looking at places.
I don’t know if the sponsor-renovated units you refer to are for sale by the sponsor, but do know that if so, most sponsors make you pay their taxes on sale (which you’d never do buying from another seller – any other seller pays it) – which substantially ups your closing costs on a unit you buy directly from the sponsor. Which changes the financials dramatically.
Good luck with your purchase, whichever you decide.
I agree with RG. Why spend money on a place that looks generic and cheap? Yes, it will be easier to move right in to the sponsor unit, but with the money you save, and, more importantly, with a little imagination, you’ll have a much cooler place to call home–whether it’s for three years or twenty years.
With all due respect to broklin, I strongly disagree with his/her comment, “You can make a crappy cheap renovation look pretty good with small decorating touches, furniture, paint, and other stuff.”
Why on earth would you spend your money (or your parents’ money more like it, lucky) on a place where the renovation, which you are paying MORE for, is “crappy” and “cheap”?
I like the CHC. And I’ve also seen people make their units look unique.
Good luck. And if your parents want to help me with a down payment on one of those other units, let me know.
Wow. Thank you for such thoughtful feedback. Truth be told, I would most likely have about 20-30K to do renovation if I could get the unrenovated unit for 300K. The main thing is the kitchen. It’s fine, but there’s no dishwasher and the whole room could use some updating.
In the sponsor units, the bathroom and kitchen are so boring and cheap looking (yup, faux granite in the kitchen; fixtures that look like they will snap off in your hands in the bathroom). The living room and bedroom are in fine shape in the unrenovated units, and the one I’ve seen twice even has the original doors and hardware (not the hallow wood doors that I could punch a hole through with my fist).
I’m not nuts about the idea of a huge mess. But I do like the idea of designing my own home–even if it’s little by little. And I think I have pretty good taste.
Does anyone think 20K would be enough to do a decent renovation of the kitchen and maybe a new tub in a CH coop one bedroom? This would not include any demolition. Ideally, I would like to do the floors as well, but that would really depend on what the sellers would be willing to take. Also, that can wait.
Was confronted with same choice when buying coop (not in same building, but same idea – those needing immediate kitchen and bathroom renovations to feel at all homey were cheaper than similar ones that had been renovated, however cheap the renovation.)
I bought an already renovated apartment (not sponsor-renovated though, but owner-renovated – decent, if cheap, Ikea kitchen, and cheap, but tasteful bath renovation, basic white tiles.) Yes, it cost more than ones needing renovation. But I knew I wouldn’t have the money for renovating any time soon (after buying) or the time in the forseeable future (working crazy hours) to properly manage a reno myself, although I would have done it with better quality.
That’s the thing, though – $25K or so will not get you very far in a reno (especially if it involves electrical panel upgrades and plumbing) if you DON’T do it in the Home Depot or Ikea style reno. Or if you have the typical expensive bad taste – radioactive granite counter, way expensive appliances, etc., that seem to be all the rage – that look is expensive! (My taste for my brownstone apartment, and your sort of later-built but plain apartment, is something a bit more Victorian for mine (or simple modern for yours) – that is to say, plainer, more in keeping with the architectural style of the apartment, not something that looks like it belongs in a suburban McMansion. And it can sometimes, but not always – depends on your taste for quality materials – be done much cheaper than the ubiquitous granite-stainless-cherry look.)
Unless you are feeling OK about ultimately spending much more than the $335 K by the time you are done with your reno (and I’m not talking high end especially, just not crappy Home Depot look, but say even a fairly frugal but tasteful quality), AND you are up for living with mess for months and managing a typical contractor who doesn’t want to ever finish the job, then, contrary to what others here advise, I say you are better off buying an already renovated one, and making specific small changes as and when you want to over time – even if you end up actually doing a rather full renovation in a few years.
Because, chances are, once you are there a few years, especially if you are a first-time buyer, and even if you think you want to live there forever, you will start dreaming of your next home. So you may never actually do the fancy, to your taste, renovation before moving on. You can make a crappy cheap renovation look pretty good with small decorating touches, furniture, paint, and other stuff. Better to make sure you want to live there long term, which you can only know after moving in for awhile, before taking the time and money to do a renovation, I think.
The difference in price between the renovated and unrenovated, in my opinion, only makes sense when the difference is much greater – when you save enough to actually DO a nice renovation AND have some left over money as compensation for your having to live in the mess and manage the renovation. And $25K isn’t even half enough to compensate me for that. And that is said by someone who someday wants to renovate a place to my own taste – but I’m realistic about what that will actually cost. Unless you or friends do most of the work, including the heavy-duty stuff, it is expensive.
So I say only go for the unrenovated if you can get a haircut of at least $50K, AND you will truly love the mess and the process of choosing every thing and managing the installation of said things.
Totally agree with Bob and RG. Not that paying less means you will have $25k in hand, but assuming you have some money for renovations, do them yourself and get the quality you want. And definitely do floors and painting before you move in.
FYI, I live in Clinton Hill and think the co-ops are the best value in the neighborhood. Really solid, construction-wise, and they’ve become much better managed over the years.
Thanks for the feedback. Just to clarify: the renovations that the sponsor seems to be doing are very generic (very low grade Home Depot stuff), but they are not offensively ugly or anything. The upside is the appliances and the floors are new. Many people–my parents who are helping with the down payment especially–are telling me that the move-in-ready aspect is a selling point. I’ve never done any work on a home, so I’m a little nervous about renovating. BUT I’ve seen people do amazing things with these coop units. I’m trying to convince my parents that making an un-renovated unit more unique with high quality fixtures, materials, doors, etc is the better investment in the long-run.
Agree with Bob Marvin.
There are a few things one should do before one moves in to an unrenovated space – remove the cottage cheese ceiling, refinish the hardwood floors, and paint. The rest can wait.
I would live in the apartment for a while to get a feel for it, decide what and how to renovate, and do it one project at a time. I wouldn’t spend money on other people’s bad taste.
I think you answered your own question when you wrote that you think “the renovations are sort of cheap and ugly”. If you fell that way, can get a similar unrenovated apartment for $25K less, AND think you can do renovations you’d prefer for that amount (or more, if that fits your budget) you’d probably be happier in the long run.