Resurrecting Red Hook's Trolley Tracks
There’s been some talk in recent years about the possibility of creating trolley lines to service areas of Brooklyn and Queens that are hard to access by public transportation, but now the idea is officially on the table. According to NY1, at a campaign event earlier this month, Mayor Bloomberg said that he is interested…
There’s been some talk in recent years about the possibility of creating trolley lines to service areas of Brooklyn and Queens that are hard to access by public transportation, but now the idea is officially on the table. According to NY1, at a campaign event earlier this month, Mayor Bloomberg said that he is interested in trolley service, and his team is currently investigating the feasibility of using the city’s old trolley tracks, starting in Red Hook. Bob Diamond, president of the Brooklyn Historic Railway Association, is enthusiastic about the idea, saying: “A light rail or a streetcar line usually costs about one-twentieth of what a subway line would cost. And they’re outside, and they use existing streets, so there’s no right-of-way acquisition and the track can be built very quickly.” Now the Department of Transportation will study the feasibility of a light rail or trolley system in Red Hook, research that is financed with about $300,000 in federal funding and should begin this year.
Trolleys Could Make a Comeback in Red Hook [NY1]
Trolleys Coming to Red Hook? [Cobble Hill Blog]
Could Streetcars Return to Brooklyn? [Brownstoner]
Streetcars for Brooklyn: a New Life? [Transport Politic]
I wish media would stop quoting the abrasive, unhinged, spinmeister that is Bob Diamond. Try doing some fact checking. He alienated all his funders and the neighbors adjoining his project in Red Hook with angry, accusatory, and increasingly paranoid tirades on top of a lack of progress on his project that affected others. He had two blocks of city street ripped up for several years and disrupted a large business on Reed Street; and his mess led to illegal dumping at the foot of Conover Street. But he used to fling down a few feet of track and write a press release, and BINGO more stories about the Trolley King appeared…
As to the viability of trolley service, how do buried tracks constitute extant infrastructure? and Columbia street was finally repaved after about 3 years of work, so there are no longer tracks there. etc.
the B61 is a nightmare, and the MTA is unresponsive. Red Hook might be better off with a fleet of private sector dollar vans that could respond rapidly to demand and the changing neighborhood demographic.
I just took Bob Diamond’s Atlantic Ave. tunnel tour last Sunday, and the guy has indeed (as Kevin of Forgotten NY points out) been working to make this idea a reality for a very long time, without success. It’d be cool if the powers that be could finally pull it off.
About 20 years ago they got as far as the City Planning Commission with a proposal for a dedicated trolley R-O-W on 42nd Street in Manhattan. That one never happened, and it sure made a lot more sense than Bob Diamond’s 1:1 scale model railway.
Even if this plan were viable, it’d never see the light of day. The MTA can’t even finish the 2nd Avenue subway line after several decades, so how could they ever finish this? Bob Diamond has been fantasizing about this for years now. Silly.
If anyone wants to see how the old trolleys used to look and run on Flatbush Avenue, check out the North Flatbush Avenue Business Improvement Districts website at http://www.nfbid.com and click on the video gallery. There is a great vintage video showing the trolleys along Flatbush Avenue, Bergen and Fifth Avenue, Ninth Street. See if you can identify some of the shops. http://www.nfbid.com
Dittoburg;
You missed my point. I wasn’t talking about pollution, I was talking about energy efficiency, and I once again state that there is NO COMPARISON between the energy efficiency of an internal-combustion bus versus that of electrical trolley.
My point was that two-thirds of generated electrical energy is lost in transmission and until a breakthrough in super-conductivity occurs, there is nothing one can do about it. On the other hand, the very reason that oil-based products are used wherever possible is that it can be transported efficiently. Very little energy is expended in transporting oil-based products. You pump it, just like we do with our water.
Regarding emissions, I once again commend that people travel to cities that have made investments in modern buses.
In terms of energy consumption and capital expenses, there is simply no comparsion between a trolley and a bus in a dedicated lane. It is wishful thinking to believe otherwise.
I would imagine articulated buses are limited as to where they can run because of street width. I see a lot of them in the Bronx- but on wide streets. I think Brooklyn probably has a lot more narrow streets.
A dedicated light rail line would be a great improvement over buses. How many times have you ever waited for a bus? And how often did you get stuck in traffic, or behind an ambulance or blocked by a delivery truck? Ever get packed into a bus or miss 2-3 buses because they were too crowded?
I would love to see trolleys come back! The light rail system which was built in Jersey City is pretty nice, too. This works pretty well in Boston, where the “Green Line” comprises 4 or 5 different trolley and light rail routes.
no local pollution, but, just as importantly, scrubbers can be used at source to dramatically reduce total pollution also. And, admittedly a minor point, but for those who have ever had the unfortunate auditory experience of living next to a bus stop as the bus accelerates away…
To take up benson’s points, heat loss might be an issue but isn’t a pollution concern, and you do not mention the parallel bus issues of having gasoline/diesel delivered locally so that it can be used locally.