3rd Avenue is Starting to Happen

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If 4th Avenue is the next Park Ave. (a laughable notion at this point), does that make 3rd Avenue the next Madison? Silly comparisons aside, 3rd Avenue in Gowanus is quietly transforming into an exciting retail/restaurant corridor. New businesses are joining neighborhood mainstays like the Glory Social Club and more recent ventures such as Canal Bar, Le Chandelier Salon, Tri-State Chess, Bella Maria Pizza, and the light manufacturing/artists’ hub at the Old American Can Factory. Here’s a roundup (from south to north) of what’s recently hit and forthcoming:

Bar Tano at 9th St.: Italian restaurant from Slope’s Bar Toto owners; opens this week.

Brick Oven Barbeque on 6th St.: BBQ joint opening in old warehouse.

Whole Foods on 3rd St.: Should come to fruition…eventually.

Home Ec betw. Carroll & 1st St.: Owners of the Flirt boutiques teach sewing lessons.

Hotel at President St.: Construction under way for 4-story hotel.

Crooked Tail Café at President St.: New coffee/sandwich shop; will open in about a month.

Drugstore or Supermarket on Degraw St.: New owner is looking to lease big warehouse.

Skate park at Douglass St.: Local group wants Thomas Greene park revamped with skateboarder friendly features.

Check out the photo montage of the new places and coming attractions on the jump.

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0 Comment

  • is this a mugging map?

  • “Whole Foods on 3rd St.: Should come to fruition…eventually.”

    Really, do you think so? I’m not counting on it. Do you believe that WF will do a sufficient job cleaning the toxic site so that buying organic food their is not an exercise in irony and futility?

  • Now if they can only get rid of the stench from the canal…

  • One word, 10:18: Incense!

  • As a mugger, I can’t wait to work that Avenue as drunken tourists stumble back from the bars and restaurants to their “hotel.”

  • Maybe the smell of delicious barbecue will overpower the odor of fecal matter and dead rats.

  • Maybe the smell of barbequed rat will scare off the rats and their fecal ways…

  • How is Whole Foods going to ever justify all the money they’ve spent if they don’t open a store. If they can’t build, they’ll never be able to sell the land. Food for thought.

  • 10:51

    Whole Foods has more money than God. This project is -peanuts- for them. Seriously, peanuts.

  • What’s happening on 3rd Avenue is yet another example of the classic NY cycle of artists moving into an area and making it cool. There are several industrial buildings that house artist studios in that area – between 2nd and 3rd avenues on 9th street, 8th street, and 7th street. How long now before rents go up, pushing the artists out?

  • 3 years and it’s over. The artists will have to move on. Sad but that’s the way it has always happened. Maybe Sunset Park will be next.

  • Why to poor artsy types make a place cool?

  • Organic peanuts, 10:53.

  • this was destined before artists were there. it’s spillage from park slope. get a clue dude. and i used to have my studio there on the gowanus by the way.

  • do not agree that this is developing because of artists. that’s crap.

    every area that gentrifies with yuppies sells for higher psf prices.

    i live in williamsburg and am so tired of that BS. it’s the people with jobs and money and the local entrepeneurs and developers who gentrified it there. people who don’t spend money aren’t doing much.

  • “do not agree that this is developing because of artists. that’s crap.

    every area that gentrifies with yuppies sells for higher psf prices.

    i live in williamsburg and am so tired of that BS. it’s the people with jobs and money and the local entrepeneurs and developers who gentrified it there. people who don’t spend money aren’t doing much.”

    The above comment is bullshit.

    If you look at all the dangerous, dark, forgotten industrial neighborhoods in NYC over the decades that have becomne gentrified it is solely because artists moved in when no on else would because of cheap rents and large working spaces. Soho, Williamsburg, etc etc… Local entreneurs and developers NEVER go into a crime ridden, dark, depressing forgotten warehouse area to gentrify unless it has already hit the map for many years of being inhabited by artists. get a clue. Yes you live in Williamsburg, but you are probably a new transplant that has absolutely no idea whatsover what the neighborhhod was like fifteen years ago when it was only artists there and no entrepeneurs and developers.

  • Artists love to take credit for everything, but they have little to do with gentrification. If artists moved to Brownsville or East New York, does anyone believe that yuppies would follow them in five years?

    These areas gentrify because of location (Williamsburg is only one train stop from Manhattan, Fort Greene is near a major transit hub), beautiful architecture (Park Slope, Prospect Heights), or lower rents as compared to Manhattan (nearly all of Brooklyn). Art galleries, easels, paintbrushes, and self-congratulatory people with no talent have little, if anything, to do with this picture.

  • 11:24 typifies the people in the last part of the cycle who have no understanding of the steps that preceded them.

  • I own a building on 3rd Ave btn 8th and 9th street, and in the processes of evicting the current tenant “Atlantic Restaurant”.

    This building has been in the fam for years and i cant wait until 3rd ave finally changes.

  • at this point in the game it’s developers who are luring artists into neighborhoods as a primer for development to come. case in point is Chelsea. as far as the Gowanus area, sure there were artists there but it was a largely benign group. Dumbo and Williamsburg were the real thing and were definately primed by the art communities that were there (East Village and Soho were too of course). Gowanus suffers from it’s proximity to Park Slope, period. watch what gets built there (there were no art-community serving cafes already BTW, because it just wasnt’ that sort of place). the development there is not organic, it’s an expansion from Park Slope and it’s going to be the same kind of boring stores that are in PS, not the kinds of places that grow out of artist communities.

  • “Artists love to take credit for everything, but they have little to do with gentrification. If artists moved to Brownsville or East New York, does anyone believe that yuppies would follow them in five years?

    These areas gentrify because of location (Williamsburg is only one train stop from Manhattan, Fort Greene is near a major transit hub), beautiful architecture (Park Slope, Prospect Heights), or lower rents as compared to Manhattan (nearly all of Brooklyn). Art galleries, easels, paintbrushes, and self-congratulatory people with no talent have little, if anything, to do with this picture.”

    spoken from the point of view of a completely clueless individual totally ignorant to the actual real history of the issue at hand. There is real hard concrete PROOF that in areas such as SOHO in the 1960′s and 1970′s, The East Village in the 70′s and 80′s, Williiamsburg in the 90′s and many other area in the City’s history, ARTISTS were the people who moved into otherwise undesirable neighborhoods and slowly created an area that got noticed and transformed into a gentrified neighborhood. Anyone who says otherwise has absolutely no understanding of how the process DID and continues to work. Artists have EVERYTHING to do with what establishes a neighborhood to go the path towrads eventual gentrification. The irony is that once it takes hold, the artists are then pushed out economically.

    Artists may be poor but they are not stupid. Of course they are going to pick a downtrotten neighborhhod with warehouse space and cheap rents that’s only one train stop from Manhattan like Williamsburg rather than one like East New York or Brownsville that’s a lot farther. Anybody would.

    That being said, yes, if enough artists smoved into Brownsville or East New York and created a scene there the neighborhood would slowly gentrify. It would take longer than five years. But then Williamsburg took a lot longer than five years too., get your facts straight.

    Williamsburg has been only one train stop from Manhattan since the subway was built in the early 1900′s. Interesting that it only started to gentrify after Artists moved in about a hundred years later.

    Fort Green has been near a major transit hub also since the inception of the subway system. I didn’t see that area gentrifying in the 1970′s. 1980′s or early 1990′s. And the major subway hub was there through all those decades. Only after the artists moved in did it start going upscale.

    And anyone who says that an art gallery has nothing to do with the picture of gentrification is a moron. Do you see art galleries in non gentriying or under-developed neighborhoods?

  • wtf happened to the union hall thing. you fucked that up

  • 11:43 is probably just some transplanted young shmuck who has a business degree who just moved into Williamsburg who bases his entire ignorant understanding of how his new neighborhood got that way on the painting he doesn’t like in the local gallery.

  • 11:24: What makes you think that artists don’t have jobs or money and aren’t local entrepenuers?

    Most of the early shops and cafes and galleries and coffee places and boutiques in Williamsburg were opened by local artists

  • Enough with the artist v. Yuppy thing, please. Who really cares?

    Its nice to see a few amenities coming into the neighborhood whether “Organic” or not. Lets just hope they thrive and more come in. Its good for the local economy and the area as a whole.

  • “do not agree that this is developing because of artists. that’s crap.”

    It is not developING anymore because of artsist, it had develOPED because of the artists that were there before. These artists have now been pushed out. And what you get is now an overdeveloped, over gentrifying area that is soon to be no longer artistic or interesting. Hello Starbucks, hello fifteen corner banks.

  • white people ruin everything

  • hipsters and yuppies just wear different clothes

  • “Who really cares?”

    The artists that establish an area and then get priced out by people like the 11:24 and 11:43 posters above above who not only move in and prices out said artist, but then doesn’t even give said artist the credit he or she deserves for ultimately making the neighborhood safe and cool for this idiot to live in.

    That’s who cares.

  • Wow, you people are more ignorant than I ever imagined. You actually believe that violent areas far from Manhattan and served by one local train route would gentrify merely because artists live there? Geez, what a grandiose sense of self-importance.

    All of the areas that you cite improved because of their location. Even if not one artist moved to Soho, Williamsburg, etc., those areas still would have wound up as exclusive as they are today.

    And, yes, artists are stupid. They continue to get priced out of neighorhoods, yet never consider buying property, only investing $ in renovating spaces that they RENT. Clearly, displaying paintings or playing music for audiences comprised of family and friends doesn’t bring in much money. Get a real job and maybe you won’t have to leave so often.

  • “hipsters and yuppies just wear different clothes.”

    Yes, but an artist is not necessarily a hipster.

    some artists don’t even wear clothes.

  • Please…it is actually mostly the (older) rich generation who gentrified these formerly industrial neighborhoods.
    Because its the rich people who have and (secretly) support the bulk of these not-very talented, disaffected, rebellious, pseudo-”artists” that move into “bad” areas, to prove their (fake) independence, and “artistic” sensibility. If their parents had just cut them off and told them to grow up and get a job, there would hardly be enough true artists to fill a couple of warehouses and there’d be even less money to support renovating any buildings.

  • >white people ruin everything

    Yes, every time they leave someplace, it falls into ruin. Mysteriously.

  • But what do artists have to do with any the new condos coming on 3rd Avenue, or the overpriced properties in Sunset Park? The kinds of early-wave artists that venture into scuzzy areas and gentrify them, they don’t spend this kind of money on live/work space. Plus NONE of these new condos are live/work loft spaces. They’re wee little apartments with tiny bedrooms.

    As for the warehouses there, it’s still an active, industrial area with the warehouses being used by successful construction and manufacturing companies. They’re not struggling along, and they’re not going to be all that willing to move just because a condo is being built next door. Many of them own the building they’re in, not lease it. Some of these places are going to be permanent neighbors to the condo developments. And they should be staying permanently! They’re Brooklyn based companies paying taxes that help keep our property taxes low, and they provide jobs.

  • most relevant forms of art and music today were created by poor people with day jobs not some dood with an art degree from some school in Rhode Island.

  • 12:39 – there is no relevant music being created today – by anyone

  • Ah, finally some decent eats for the lunch hungry bench techs at The Mac Support Store!

  • “Wow, you people are more ignorant than I ever imagined. You actually believe that violent areas far from Manhattan and served by one local train route would gentrify merely because artists live there? Geez, what a grandiose sense of self-importance.”

    Whether you like it or not, it’s not a grandiose sense of self imprtance, it is actually historical fact. Go do some research, talk to some people who actually have first hand knowledge of the process and the past history of the neighborhoods in question and you’ll find out that you are an idiot. You are basing your entire belief on your own biases and misguided and ignorant viewpoints. Consult anyone who has lived in your neighborhood twenty years ago until now and they will set your little stupid angry mind straight. There are former small town run down crime ridden vacant communities in rural areas in upstate New York that have become expensive gentirified living communities and exclusive tourist destinations soley because artists took over the areas not so long ago and ultimately turned the area around. And these towns are VERY FAR from Manhattan and NOT CONNECTED to the subway!

    “All of the areas that you cite improved because of their location. Even if not one artist moved to Soho, Williamsburg, etc., those areas still would have wound up as exclusive as they are today.”

    Not true. Soho would not be full of galleries and boutiques now if it wasn’t for the artists. Neither would Williamsburg. Why did Williamsburg never gentrify until artists moved in? Huh? You can’t answer that one can you?

    “And, yes, artists are stupid. They continue to get priced out of neighorhoods, yet never consider buying property, only investing $ in renovating spaces that they RENT. Clearly, displaying paintings or playing music for audiences comprised of family and friends doesn’t bring in much money. Get a real job and maybe you won’t have to leave so often.”

    Possibly many of the artist that move into undesirable and dangerous neighborhoods cannot AFFORD to buy property.
    Way to go to insult people in a low econmic bracket as being stupid that they cannot afford the same thing as someone else that swoops in and can. That really makes you look foolish and very unlikable.

    Your last comment unmaskes you for who and what you are… a very young, privledged out of towner new to the City and very arrogant and niave. Clearly you think that creative people and/or people less economically fortunate than you are stupid.

    Most of the worlds most famous and rich painters and musicians began their careers displaying paintings and playing music for audiences comprised of family and friends. It doesn’t bring in much money at first, but these people end up making more money than someone like you will EVER hope to see in your wildest dreams.

    Of course these are the same people that you currently look down at. Just remember when you are looking up at a VERY rich artist or musician one day, he or she might be that poor stupid person that you sent packing.

  • The real ignorance in this thread is that no one has commented that East New York, Brownsvile and Canarsie ARE NOW being filled up with artists and warehouse dwellers.

    Williamsburg is long over. Bushwick is on the way out. Think white kids in their 20s wouldnt wonder so far East? Think its still too rough? Think again.

  • Thanks 12:55. I’m afraid it’s like arguing with a brick, but nicely stated.

  • I agree with everything 12:55 said, it’s on the money (and backed up by every study done on real estate trends and urban development).

    The only thing I disagree with is his profile of the person who is writing the anti-artist rants. 12:55 said he thought this person was young and privileged. They wish! Young and privileged people tend to come from backgrounds that are well-versed in the arts and support art and culture. These are the people who bankroll culture is most towns. I say this person is clueless housewife turned realtor. With her “location location location” simpleminded mantra. No understanding of what MAKES a good location in the first place! Which is the artist/bohemian factor. Look it up, lady realtor. It’s a well known and studied phenomenon. It’s exactly why every town outside of NYC and around the country are DESPERATELY trying to build the arts/culture in their community.

  • http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2007/db20070226_149427.htm?chan=search

    Bohemian Today, High-Rent Tomorrow
    Creative types are essential to urban and regional economic growth. Here’s why—and the cities artists should flock to now

    by Maya Roney

    Want to know where a great place to invest in real estate will be five or 10 years from now? Look at where artists are living now.

    Sociologists and policymakers have long been touting art and culture as the cure-all to economically depressed neighborhoods, cities, and regions. The reason? It has been proven that artists—defined as self-employed visual artists, actors, musicians, writers, etc.—can stimulate local economies in a number of ways.

    Artists are often an early sign of neighborhood gentrification. “Artists are the advance guard of what’s hip and cool,” says Bert Sperling, founder and president of Portland (Ore.)-based Sperling’s Best Places and compiler of BusinessWeek.com’s list of the Best Places for Artists in America.

    Creativity Leads to Growth
    Artists, because of their typically lower incomes, usually need to seek out less expensive, developing neighborhoods where they can afford the rent. But because of their creativity they are able to fix up these areas, eventually attracting hip boutiques, galleries, and restaurants. Not all artists are starving. While some are able to achieve success writing, acting, painting, or dancing, others get tired of scraping by as waiters or bartenders and sometimes apply their abilities in more entrepreneurial ways.

    Anne Markusen, an economist and professor at the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs and a leading researcher on the effects of the arts on regional economics, once profiled an abstract painter whose work is now displayed on ceilings and in MRI machines in hospitals across the country. In Markusen’s research, artists have also been found to stimulate innovation on the part of their suppliers. A painter may need a certain type of frame that is not manufactured, forcing the frame maker to create a new design that happens to also work well for other artists.

    But Markusen also maintains that artists bring more than culture to a community. “Businesses don’t often understand the extent to which art affects them,” Markusen says. “[Artists] are just as important as science and technology companies.”

  • 12:55 – the points you aren’t getting is:

    1. most of these “artists” – don’t produce anything artistic

    and

    2. it is the arrogance of these so called “artists” that makes for the vitriol found here – art is great and very important, but it is far from the only worthwhile or creative occupation. You might not like bankers, developers, construction workers, lawyers, publishers, etc, etc, etc but these occupations are all essential for our culture and can be done in a creative and beneficial way (not that everyone does)

    and

    3. 3rd Ave is not and was not an “artist haven” – it is a product of Park Slope spillover, whose gentrification has been well past the “artist” stage for some 35years now.

  • “[Artists] are just as important as science and technology companies.”

    HA!

    Bless em.

  • 2 pm:

    1, “artists not producing anything artistic” is an opinion. Art by nature is subjective and based on different tastes. Your opinion that many artists are not producing anything artistic is not a fact that I am not getting, it is your opinion that I may or may not agree with.

    2. I don’t think that any of the “artists” that are posting here are being arrogant in any way. At the most they are being defensive based on a very misinformed and obnoxious post that basically dismissed them as being unimportant to the gentrification process and insulted them as being stupid.

    I also never indicated at any time that I did not like developers, construction workers, lawyers, publishers, etc, etc, etc I may have infered that I did not like bankers by stating that the poster was probably a business person, but that was not specifically leveled at bankers.

    No one on this thread ever stated that art was the only worthwhile creative occupation. Stop making things up.

    3. My post was aimed at the poster who claims to live in Williamsburg and gives no credit to the artists who pioneered the area. My post wasn’t really about 3rd Ave. Off topic fromthis initial thread yea, but a necessary response to the idiot who started this nonsence by claiming artists were not responsible for the gentrification process.

  • Wrong, 12:55. I was born and raised in NYC. How about you?

    You still have not convinced me of anything. And, no, I don’t believe that Brownsville, ENY, and Canarsie are filled with artists. They’ve all moved to Philadelphia, because they were too stupid to purchase property while they were allegedly “pioneering” all of the cool areas.

  • artists are the people “real” new yorkers hate.

    most are from out of state, they dress weird, listen to weird music, and pretty much the exact opposite of guidos

  • “and pretty much the exact opposite of guidos” Sounds like a good thing to me.

  • Yeah I agree Niggers and Guidos are the same and definitly the opposite of artists…..

    I hope saying this is not offensive to anyone – I just figured that using slang for ethnic/racial groups is ok here. Right?

  • “Wrong, 12:55. I was born and raised in NYC. How about you?

    You still have not convinced me of anything. And, no, I don’t believe that Brownsville, ENY, and Canarsie are filled with artists. They’ve all moved to Philadelphia, because they were too stupid to purchase property while they were allegedly “pioneering” all of the cool areas.”

    Yes born and raised not only in NYC, but -and how do you like this- in Williamsburg! How do you like that. Saw it all with my own eyes, the crime, the changes in demographics, the ARTISTS moving in in the late 80′s, early 90′s. the gentrification that came afterwards, and so forth….

    And I guess the above article that someone else posted from the well respected magazine BUSINESS WEEK supporting my case hasn’t convinced you either. I guess nothing will. Like someone else here said, it;’s like arguing with a brick. A very stupid brick.

    Once again, keep reinfiorcing your opinion that people who can’t afford something are stupid. great argument. really. You really are a brick.

  • “artists are the people “real” new yorkers hate.

    most are from out of state, they dress weird, listen to weird music, and pretty much the exact opposite of guidos”

    Most artists that come from out of state and establish themseleves here as working artists have re-established themseleves as New Yorkers. real New Yorkers.

    Andy Warhol was from out of state. When people all over the world think of Andy Warhol, they don’t think of Pittsburg, they think of New York,

    And dressing weird and listing to wierd music is not a bad thing if you compare it to how horrible and boting and bland mainstream clothes and music have become.

    And the guido comment doesn’t make any sense.

    An

  • This thread has some very long posts. I’ll wait for the movie.

  • some New York associated and based artists that came from out of state:

    Andy Warhol
    Bob Dylan
    John Lennon (70′s)
    Patti Smith
    etc etc etc

  • Anybody who can’t afford to buy something is stupid?

    So by the same logic that you state an artist living in a bad neighborhood is too stupid to buy the place he is living in because he doesn’t have the money to do so would also apply to pretty much anyone else that doesn’t have enough money to do what he wants?

    Are the starving children in Africa starving because they are stupid?

  • Of course NYC attracts artists from all over the country. It always did. NYC was one of the few places alternative culture people could live and thrive in this country, form a community of like-minded people, and actually make a living on their art. Not just recently but anytime over the last 100 years. And before. Most artists in NYC came from other places.

    Who doesn’t know that??

  • apparently most people in this thread.

    If new york was filled with only people born here it would suck ass

  • i’m 11:43 and been in Brooklyn for almost 12 years. i personally bought and sold property in areas that no one else considered several times. sorry, but my hard cash had way way more to do with helping different hoods. i love williamsburg, but let’s face it, cobble hill, that NEVER had artists or galleries, has significantly higher psf rates than williamsburg.

    also, the money has come pouring into williamsburg because of change in zoning laws meets 1 stop to the city.

    restaurants and shops serve the people with money.

  • 11:43 and 4:30:

    Obviously you are in the business of flipping property, not a person who moves into a neighborhood and cultivates it.

    So you’ve been in Brooklyn for 12 years? WOW! I’ve been here for almost fifty. And I’ve seen the artists change over neighborhoods naturally.

    So you think that your hard cash was the reason why hoods gentrified? Boy are you egotistical, simple, misguided and dumb.

    All along I thoought there was a natural decades long progression of artists to gentification, personally observed and historically documented, but you have come along and showed me that I and everyone else was wrong… it was really YOU. You and your cold hard cash that made all the difference.

    Waht an imbecile.

    Cobble Hill has been in a gentrification state since the early 1980′s. And even befoire that it was NEVVER a bad depressed area. Cobble Hill does not fit a neighborhood to be used as an example of the issue being discussed or argued about. Sorry.

    What are you going to tell me next, that Brooklyn Heights never had artists and that THAT gentrified recently?

    There was a long hard progression that a lot of these neighborhoods went through. You’ve been here since 1995? What a joke for you to take credit for anything. I was here through the 70′s and 80′s and saw what these neighborhoods were like.

    If your going to take credit for everything yourself, then at least get your facts straight.

  • neandethals were artists. Have you seen those cave paintings? But then those darn homo sapiens moved in and gentrified everything.

  • ‘m 11:43 and been in Brooklyn for almost 12 years. i personally bought and sold property in areas that no one else considered several times. sorry, but my hard cash had way way more to do with helping different hoods. i love williamsburg, but let’s face it, cobble hill, that NEVER had artists or galleries, has significantly higher psf rates than williamsburg.

    also, the money has come pouring into williamsburg because of change in zoning laws meets 1 stop to the city.

    restaurants and shops serve the people with money.

    This above quote is obviously written by a developer.

    Shouldn’t you be out developing rather than sitting here writing crap and nonsence on a blog?

  • Once the rents go up and the artists move out and the yuppies move in, the neighborhoods become as boring as the next place.

    Follow the artists. and F*ck that developr guy who posted above taking credit for everthing with his money. What a douchebag.

    It’s people with money that bring out the boring in everything.

  • as opposed to the “artistes” without money who bring out the pretentiousness in each other.

  • “also, the money has come pouring into williamsburg because of change in zoning laws meets 1 stop to the city.”

    And why do you think that the money came pouring in though when it did? And why do you think the change in zoinng laws happened?

    You are blind to the cause and effect of things. You are just noticing the oversimplified end game of the cycle without seeing the set up.

    The CIty doesn’t rezone industrial areas just for the hell of it for developers to build condos unless there is a desire for those condos. The dvelopers aren’t going to build condos unless there is a deisre for the condos. People with money are not going to want to move into a dark industrial crime ridden warehouse filled neighborhood no matter how close to Manhattan unless the area is attractive. How does the previously undesirable area become attractive? Artists move in to the dark desolate crime infested area while it is still dark and desolate and crime ridden and bring with them culture and youth and energy. Soon they open little shops and interesting places to eat, etc etc etc. that offset the seedy and undesirable surroundings. The process moves on and grows from there. Soon the interesting places and cool places are outnumbering the vacant storefronts and dumpy businessses, and soon other people want to move in and do, although now by the time they do, the neighborhod is no longer dark and dirty and desolate and crime ridden, It is safe for others. Developers come in to satisfy that new demand and the city changes zoning to accomodate this new demand.

    The City doesn’t just rezone for the hell of it. And evelopers aren’t going to build a condo building unless the are warrents it. How does the area change to warrent it? see above. But the area needs to change FIRST.

  • Really 4:51 – I find everyone wearing the same ‘counter-culture” clothes, the same piercings, the same (ugly) tatoos, with the same politics and beliefs is really the most boring.

    It just becomes boring and irritating when those CLONES call themselves “artists”, even though 98% of them produce nothing “artistic” and are in fact supported by the wealthy people (parents) that they claim to be so radically opposed.

  • artists do have money. Thats how they pay for art school

  • no their parents pay for art school

  • you mean their parents pay.

  • Northside wasn’t industrial and crime-ridden. It was just industrial. Or rather post-industrial, and close to Manhattan. Thats why it was rezoned. Get over yourself. The city rezones when they think its needed. I suppose all the condos in LIC were due to you as well.

  • it also bothers me how people talk about how they could live in new york and not have a job. What came out of that? Not much.

    While these white art school kids sat around kids in the bronx invented hip hop!!!!

    shit

  • Right, all art school kids are white.

    What a clown.

  • Artists are not real people.

    Modern art is meaningless.

    Posts about developments in gow-anus are really a comment on the value of artists in relation to real estate values.

  • “Northside wasn’t industrial and crime-ridden. It was just industrial. Or rather post-industrial, and close to Manhattan. Thats why it was rezoned. Get over yourself. The city rezones when they think its needed. I suppose all the condos in LIC were due to you as well.”

    It wasn’t? Maybe 12 years ago when you moved here it wasn’t, but if you go back aways it wasn’t safe.

    You mean it was rezoned because it was post industrial and close to Manhattan? So then why isn’t everything that is close to Manhattan being rezoned?. And why if that’s true, did it not get rezoned twenty, thirty years ago? Why? BECAUSE NO ONE WITH MONEY WOULD MOVE THERE YOU STUPID IDIOT! Yes, the City rezones when it is needed, and not just becasue the City “thinks” it is needed, but becuase there is money involved and pressure is put on the City by developers. Why does this happen this decade and not previous decades? BECAUSE the ARTISTS that were there pioneering, PAVED THE PATH for this to happen! Willimasburg didn’t suddenly become close to Manhattan and post industrial and one subway stop away overnight this decade. It was like that forever, but only began slowly gentrifying relatively recently due to -MY GOSH- the coincidental arrival of artists settling in the area and making it hip right before the gentrification process moved into high gear. A Coincidence? I thinknot.

  • Name one single really bad unsafe non residential industrial dirty neighborhood that has suddenly began gentrifying due to an instant arrival of yuppies and people with money that didn’t have artists pioneering right before? You can’t. Not in the recent history of this City.

    There are no examples where a crime ridden ethnic down and dirty industrial neighborhood suddenly becomes attractive to middle class white yuppies who decide to move there and gentrify it. Doesn’t happen. The yuppies and other white money only move in after the area has been established as cool and cleaned up and “safened” up enough by the previously pioneering artists.

    You can argue all you want. But it’s proven history and will continue to be.

  • I hearby christen the offending posting developer “The Brick”

  • All hail the brick’s money and ability to turn around neighboods single-handedly!

  • Name one single really bad unsafe non residential industrial dirty neighborhood that has suddenly began gentrifying due to an instant arrival of yuppies and people with money that didn’t have artists pioneering right before? You can’t. Not in the recent history of this City.

    DUMBO – and please don’t try to say that the handful of art-like buisnesses/people “pioneered” the neighborhood – b/c they didn’t – Gentrification came b/c of one person – Walentas – who as the owner/developer basically built the luxury residential market out of whole cloth.

  • I’m packaging this thread as a series of t shirts.

  • 30 years ago there was still plenty of industry there dingbat. You’re completely clueless aren’t you.

    As for 5.41 – LIC.

    The whole of new york has changed since 30 years ago, dangerous areas everywhere were rezoned and/or newly developed. $$$$ came in. look at Tribeca 30 yrs ago, Times Sq. 20 yrs ago.

    You clearly didn’t grow up here. I suppose you also cleared up the graffiti on the subways, rebuilt half of harlem and moved into the south bronx too?

    Grow up and get a real job.

  • I knew self-annointed artists had high opinions of themselves but I didn’t realize they were truly delusional. Too much weed I guess.

  • 5.36 – you’re just plain wrong. You’ve made some logical assumptions, listened to others in your band, and thing you know whats going on, But you’re wrong.

    “Zoning To Kill Manufacturing, and the Assault on Greenpoint
    by Tom Angotti
    May, 2003

    The NYC Department of City Planning (DCP) is on the brink of what could be a great urban planning disaster. It is preparing to rezone huge chunks of industrial land to promote housing development. This could result in a massive displacement of industry on a scale similar to the hundreds of thousands of residents displaced by urban renewal programs of the 1960s. Decades from now planners may wake up and ask how they can get back the 250,000 industrial jobs they lost (see last month’s Land Use column on zoning and industrial retention by Adam Friedman).

    Industrial zoning (that is, land within the city’s “M” zoning districts) keeps land prices in industrial areas low because property owners can’t, for the most part, use their land for housing or other high-rent purposes. This in turn keeps rents low enough for manufacturing and other industries so that they can afford to operate in the city. One of the main reasons the city has lost almost a million manufacturing jobs in the last 50 years is that its small industries can’t afford to pay higher rents, and so move to the suburbs. To be sure, industry has declined in most U.S. cities due to global restructuring, but New York City lost proportionately more jobs than the rest of the region. It is in fact one of the biggest losers in the country. As a result, the city has high unemployment and poverty rates.

    The Department of City Planning’s rezoning campaign began in the early 1990s, when the agency released a study that created a gloomy outlook for industry in the city. The study traced the downward trend of industrial jobs since the early part of the 20th century and, without any analysis of current trends, assumed that the decline would continue. This then became a self-fulfilling prophecy as the agency proceeded to eat away at industry’s zoning protections. At the same time, government continued to shower benefits on the finance and real estate sectors. During the Giuliani administration, over $5 billion in tax incentives were given away to corporate and financial giants while the city had no coherent policy to hold on to manufacturers.

    The city planning department’s assault on industrial zoning is part of its strategic plan, which calls for the rezoning of “unproductive manufacturing areas” in Greenpoint/Williamsburg, Hudson Square, Morrisania, and Bruckner Boulevard. The first victim of the agency’s war on industry was Long Island City, which was rezoned in 2002 to make way for new office and residential development. Industrial zoning was preserved in a portion of the neighborhood, but property owners there will now face the temptation to speculate with their land and hold out for a future conversion to residential uses, when land values shoot up high enough and the political climate is ripe, that will wipe out the remnants of industrial zoning. The planning agency is now preparing a second assault on Long Island City.

    The agency’s crusade against industry got a big boost when Mayor Michael Bloomberg issued his $5 billion plan to create 65,000 new units of housing. The plan explicitly mentioned utilizing the city’s industrially-zoned waterfront land for new housing sites. What the planning agency forgot to tell the mayor is that the majority of the city’s vacant industrially-zoned land is in Staten Island, much of the industrially-zoned waterfront is in active industrial use, and many of the vacant waterfront sites are vacant because property owners have been sitting on the land, speculating on the likelihood that the city would rezone it so they could make windfall profits on residential development.”

  • 5:41 PM,

    neighborhoods have been “pioneered” by gay communities too. i can certainly say that about parts of Philadelphia and i would bet that it has happened in parts of NYC.

  • There’s a Mac repair and sales shop on 7th between 2nd & 3rd. The building next to them is being gutted, and I assume it’s going to be turned into upscale-ish retail or office space. Anyone know what’s going up there?

    (My apologies to everyone who comes to this site to bash artists. I thought it supposed to be related to Brooklyn real estate and such, and I foolishly was curious about finding out about what’s happening on 3rd. How wrong was I? Little did I know that artists were inauthentic non-New Yorkers who are not artistic.)

  • Funny how people don’t pretend to be gay to gain the cache of hipness the way they do by pretending they are “artists”

  • 6:21:

    Tribeca was never ‘dangerous’. It was industrial yes, but never considered a dangerous or run down neighborhood, even back in the day.

    Times Square is a whole different animal altogether and has nothing to do whatsoever with what we are talikng about.

    Times Square was specifically redesigned and rezoned for BIG money and BIG business to make it safe for Disney and large corporations to sell specifically to the tourists. It is not and never has been gentrified for living in the way that we are discussing the other neighborhoods in this blog. Midtown Manhattan is not exactly within the definition of what we are calling ‘gentrification’

  • Cruddy, dangerous and creepy Asbury Park has seen an upturn in gentrification by gays and lesbains settling there.

    There are now galleries and small shops where vacant storfonts were just a few years ago, Propewrty values are rising.

  • I don’t know who all these people are that you are claiming that are pretending to be artists. If you don’t like their work, then that’s your personal right and opinion. But people that spend their lives and/or the better part of their free time outisde of their dayjob to create art are all artists. Considering how hard making full time living is as an artist, It’s incredible that anybody would think someone would pretend to be one.

  • funny how the business guy developer claims that artists must be smoking to much weed. You don’t hear the artists on this board criticizing the businessmen for their cocaine habits .

  • What’s truly amazing to me on this thread is that there seems to be one guy (or girl) here who has a specific gripe and animosity towards artists in general. Keeps telling them to “get a real job”, claims that artists aren’t ‘real’ have no talent, etc etc etc…..

    Either this person is a frustrated, rejected digrunteled artist him or herself, or it is a non artist that must have has some sort of bad personal experience like being dumped by an ex artist lover, or something.

    Because, ordinarily, who would have such a problem with artists in general?

    They don’t cause anyone any harm, are usually pretty shy and don’t cause a stir after they don’t get any credit after being kicked out of neighborhoods they pioneered…

  • Artists ruin neighborhoods. They come in to an otherwise fine, dirty filthy crack infested hood and bring in their stupid little boutiques and their fancy ass cafes. I prefer the corner bodega with the bullet holes in the window to the artsy safe muffin shop that replaces it. Gimmee the crack whore hitting me up for mioney any day over the intersting hipster chick with the sexy miniskirt walking by with her eisel..

  • Developers for the most part are a-holes. Rip-off men with a permit.

  • artists are smart for being poor. Developers are stupid for being rich.

  • “There’s a Mac repair and sales shop on 7th between 2nd & 3rd. The building next to them is being gutted, and I assume it’s going to be turned into upscale-ish retail or office space. Anyone know what’s going up there?”

    The guy who runs Brooklyn Artists Gym, which is in the same building next door, told me it will be more rental artist studio space. Hooray!

  • Please, people.

    Some neighborhoods get inflixes of artists – SoHo in the 70s, Alphabet City in the 80s, Williamsburg in the 90s – and that led to the creation of some amenities that appealed to those people’s temperament… i.e. the temperament, by and large, of bohemian suburban transplants. So you get cafes and the like.

    (Let’s not try to glorify the artists TOO much… generally they’re not native New Yorkers. And some are definitely talentless hacks mooching off parents and/or girlfriends who just like to ride along on the cool factor of that social scene. Some, on the other hand, are successful working artists of the type most think of when they think of artist gentrification.)

    Note that artist-gentrification is very location-specific. The native New Yorkers who grew up and got normal working class/middle class jobs tended to stay in affordable but boring nabes like Bay Ridge, Sunset Park, Windsor Terrace, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill and Bed Stuy. These nabes get rising prices due to the rising incomes of working professionals – it has nothign to do with artists.

    So what happens? The children of the working professionals are priced out of their own neighborhoods, and like the bohemian vibe and amenities in places like the East Village and Williamsburg, so they move there and coexist with the artists. As they grow and their spending power increases, they end up pushing the artists out. The artists then grumble about “damn yuppies” and gravitate toward other neighborhoods they can afford – Greenpoint, LIC, South Bronx, etc.

    So the ultimate question is, is this happening along 3rd avenue?

    I don’t really think so. Where are these artists? Where are the illegal industrial conversion the made for affordability in the other artist enclaves? Where are the cafes and bohemian vibe? I think this particular area is gentrifying more for geographical reasons than social reasons.

    But then, as long as this post ius, it’s still a vast oversimplification of the social, economic, and geographical dynamics of this borough.

  • “Note that artist-gentrification is very location-specific. The native New Yorkers who grew up and got normal working class/middle class jobs tended to stay in affordable but boring nabes like Bay Ridge, Sunset Park, Windsor Terrace, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill and Bed Stuy. These nabes get rising prices due to the rising incomes of working professionals – it has nothign to do with artists.”

    It is true that the working class stayed in these areas but these are not the type of areas that artists would pioneer anyway because there was nothing to pioneer. Artists tend to gravitate due to necessity and interest to dead areas that are for the most part off limits residentally to most people because of no amenities, surroundings, or just plain fear, but which artist are interested and/or econmically forced to live in.. . All the above neighborhoods you mention were never bad crime ridden, industrial, or previously left for dead neighborhoods. Windsor Terrace has always been an Irish middle class working class neighborhood. Bay Ridge has always been an Italian middle class working class nieghborhood. Fort Green, Bed Stuy and Clinton Hill have always been African American working class neighborhoods, and Sunset Park has always been a Spanish working class area which is now becoming an Asian wofking class neighborhood.

    None of these neighborhoods were full of cheap large working space that no one wanted to live in which appealed to artists. They were all full of residents already adn were all fully finctioning middle class residential and commercial neighborhods. Soho and the East Village and Williamsburg in their respective above mentioned times were not fully functioning residential middle calss neighborhoods when the artist settled in.