Original windows

Any advice on repairing original brownstone windows? The windows all work, but need new sills and rails, in some cases. I know there are companies that will do full restorations, but that can be very expensive and time consuming.

briannaareche

in Doors & Windows 1 year and 3 months ago

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justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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Urbandad: Sodium hydroxide works perfectly well for stripping wood. the problem is that the people doing the stripping do not know what they are doing and do not follow directions: the paint is peeling off the work stripped with sodium hydroxide because the knob head who stripped it did not neutralize the old wood after using a product with a ph of like 12 or even 14. and even if they did neutralize it, they did not ph test it afterward to see if it fell back to 7.0 to 7.4.

in so far as me doing something like this: for someone to make money at this (and do them properly), these have to be done by someone who does them all the time. speed will be crucial and only experts can move and make money. i can do this to the same quality that someone else can but because i have not done a lot of window sash, i will move too slow at it and for that reason alone (combined with the fact that i have a child in college), i would need to get paid the same rate an expert like Method would get. For that reason alone, op is better off going to someone like Method. this is exactly why i do not offer myself up to do windows (after thinking about this last week i recalled that i rebuilt and octagonal window frame in a house on the east end of long island twenty years ago).

OP and i know exactly why op will not go to Method and if you read back through what i say above, i tried to offer op a compromise and it is the best compromise a contractor or professional can offer someone in OP’s shoes even if it is not what they want to hear. Not everyone on this board can afford to hire Method Restoration nor can they afford to hire me to work on doors. It bothers me a little bit that people do not understand this and keep talking as if it does not matter, because it also means that some people do not understand what the cost of going green might mean to others (and why some people might resist it) or in the case of the people doing the work, what healthcare and worker protections might mean for people whose bodies get worn out (and why some workers might get angry).

Thank you Urbandad for bringing up Method Restoration once more. To the point you made a couple of weeks back about “neighbors helping neighbors”: we have to know and understand our neighbors before we can help them.

hkapstein | 1 year and 3 months ago

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There are companies that will restore windows. Method did a job nearby where I live, and I I don’t know how the process or pricing was, but it seemed like they did the job okay. They don’t fabricate new sashes or frames as far as I know. If you have more than one or two windows, you could consider shops upstate or a little further afield who might bid the job cheaper. But that would mainly work if the frames are pretty good and you want the sashes restored.

Now it’s not trivial to restore a sash. A good job would usually involve stripping the glazing putty and removing all glass. Then stripping the paint which is almost always lead paint at least on the exterior side. The windows should not be caustic dip stripped as leaching of sodium hydroxide has been observed to occur with temperature changes on exterior woodwork which will strip off the new finish. Heat stripping or solvent stripping should be considered. Heating glass with a heat gun can easily cause it to break, making steam boxes a popular choice to remove the glazing putty and sometimes the paint.

If the sills or frames need restoration, you’ll need a decent carpenter on site. You also need someone who understands how weight and chain windows work, because a typical shop will want to install replacement windows since that’s all they know how to do.

Now you say that the windows work, but they need new “sills and rails”. Well the rail of the window is the top and bottom horizontal structural members of each sash. Is that really what is damaged, or is it the window frame and mouldings that hold it in place? If it’s the sill and the frame, then you really just need a decent carpenter. Maybe homeinspector would come out of retirement to help you out.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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Finding the talent is not the problem.

colonialrevival | 1 year and 3 months ago

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Give Peter from Method a call. This sort of thing would be a piece of cake for him.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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there is a big gulf between carpenters and woodworkers and even the tools we use. and knowing how to use those tools. Know that anyone with this much skill is running a business and that means responsibility. i can do this but the time i would have to spend on it means that i have to charge what everyone else charges for something like this-

in so far as the company Jeremy posted. i have looked at their website. these folks work on modern windows, not old wood windows. that is why they were reluctant to fix the chain balance. It is easy to fix a chain balance so long as the wood on the stile of the window is solid enough to accept a screw (and many contractors who are not woodworkers do not want to waste time driving around to check the condition of wood on windows not knowing if they can complete the repair and get paid). If the chain has become lost inside the frame on older windows, the casement molding has to be pulled to access it. on post say 1900 or 1910 (windows down in the Beverly Road area), there is a little piece of wood that can be unscre wed in the sashway and the fallen chain can be accessed there. to make this sort of repair, the stop molding must be pulled and the sash removed. this is all fairly easy stuff and the stop molding on the post 1900 (or so) windows is screwed on for easy removal. so a homeowner can do this.

Know that the kind of maintenance work that Jeremy mentions in his post and i address above is very different from the woodwork required to rebuild windows and people who install modern windows or work on them (i installed modern windows pre college in the early 1980’s and i serviced them during college in the latter half of the 1980s and have installed a few since). As many people on this board know, i rebuild wood doors and i have rebuilt some windows. this kind of woodwork has nothing to do with work on modern plastic and metal products and requires the highest skill of woodwork.

you may wish to assess the damage and decide if perhaps it is better to find replacement windows (look, when we bought this place we had to do the windows and even as a woodworker, i had to bite the bullet and put vinyl windows in; our heating bill would have been a half a fortune if i had not, not to mention the street noise) on even the rear of the house and save your money and do the front windows correctly by having new sash or inserts made or buying better quality wood windows.

As many people know, i am now a Home Inspector and that has quickly transpired into a consultant. i am available for consultation if anyone has window issues (i mean modern replacement window issues) they would like to address themselves. These windows are made to be serviced.

Steve

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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It would best be left to a specialist.

briannaareche | 1 year and 3 months ago

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Unfortunately, I don’t have the time and am not handy enough to take on a project like this myself. I wonder if a general carpenter can do the work, or only window specialists. I know there are companies like method restoration, but I think the do wholesale rebuilds, which is more than I am looking for.

Guest User | 1 year and 3 months ago

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This company did a chain balance repair for me a year ago when everyone (including them) said why waste your time fixing the difficult old windows:
window-repair-nyc.com

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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the book i mention above is Working Windows by Terrence Meany. i have a copy here that i planned on giving away on here. it might happen if i can find it.

justinromeu26 | 1 year and 3 months ago

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you can have sash made and pop the old ones out and replace them. if you are very handy you can rebuild your own (i have done it) but it is a lot of work and for professionals like myself, this is exacting work that if not done correctly will lead to issues. i have never gotten into it full time but have repaired some sash here. get the book Working Windows and start there. if you wish some consultation about this i am available. i know how to remove sash and replace sash. i might be able to get you started. but the fine work will take skill and talent.

i have the sash bits here for router tables.

Steve