Advice on having a metal Fabricator make custom steel windows

We’re building out a penthouse on our our roof and getting window quotes. Our contractor suggested having the metal fabricator who is doing the exterior steel framing bid for building custom steel windows. The penthouse will have a lot of glass including one wall with windows and glass that is almost 12′ wide by 7′ tall. His quote came in about the same as Marvin, but the advantage is the steel could look better and would be easier to customize in the space, especially if he is also doing the framing. My question is whether it is a good idea to have a general steel fabricator (who does stairs, framing, etc.) also make custom, double-glazed steel windows. Any questions I should ask or things I should be aware of? How hard is it to do this right?Obviously, I want to make sure the windows don’t leak or fog up, aren’t drafty, and do a decent job isolating sound.

mzmisdacutljvesg

in Doors & Windows 8 years and 10 months ago

7

Please log in, in order to post replies!

7 replies

Newest Oldest

a2chitect | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4925 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4913 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "180312"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "a2chitect"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BlPTq2Ur4fHb/lhfEWlLs3DgwqNgLK/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "a2chitect"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(27) "matthew.h.mueller@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:44:18"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "a2chitect"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(180312)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I would not recommend this. Steel fabricators are usually not in the business of making windows, nor can they warrant such work. All of the thermal issues mentioned above will become a problem over time. HOPES windows makes a thermally broken steel window that will probably achieve the look you want, but you will pay more.

jcarch | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4924 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4923 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "23991"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(6) "jcarch"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BS0hz8fYZfWVNwJxAdb5D7GSB6JTfb."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(6) "jcarch"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "jpc@jcarchitecture.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "/forums/users/jcarch/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:06:39"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "jcarch"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(23991)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

You are correct that – if you use very large glass lites – you’ll minimize the thermal losses through that conductive steel frame. But you’ll still feel the chill in winter around those frames, and wherever you do have steel, you’ll get condensation on the inside faces of the steel that will run/drip down onto the wall/floor. Over time, you’ll have minor water damage to those areas.

jcarch
———————–
James Cleary Architecture

daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4920 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4926 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

> @biglebowskinyc
> Am I missing something?

No. That is what I assumed you originally meant but should have spelled out. Which would be fine.

mzmisdacutljvesg | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4925 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4927 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209441"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(16) "mzmisdacutljvesg"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BqAT/fCJfA79vdbLKCjKM9puvKGFpr."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(16) "mzmisdacutljvesg"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "xfigueroa13@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-06-29 00:50:09"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(16) "mzmisdacutljvesg"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209441)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

hmmm….my understanding is that he would would be making large steel frames to fit exactly into the walls he is building and then install custom, measured double-glazed window panes. Basically, it would be a thin rim of steel holding in 3 glass panes approx 7’x3′, as well as a door of the same size. From what I’ve read, the thermal properties of this set-up should be fine since it is mostly uninterrupted double-glazed glass. Am I missing something?

daveinbedstuy | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4924 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4928 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Frankly I’m surprised your contractor would recommend this. A metal fabricator typically would not have any experience with the issues of insulated glass. If he is talking about frames within which the windows would be installed then that’s a different story but do not rely on him to make actual windows and expect them to perform as you would expect.

Augustiner | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4927 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4920 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "45573"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(10) "Augustiner"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B34SD8yEA6Hi8EPJJfH83mCf4GZmmP0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(10) "augustiner"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "flo@flat-peach.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(32) "http:///forums/users/augustiner/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:35:10"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "August"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(45573)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Steel has a high thermal conductivity, and is absolutely not suitable as material for window frames.
Why don’t you fit the pure panels into your design somehow, like a storefront window

lynnepoling | 8 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4928 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4925 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "193604"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "lynnepoling"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BH1SykQjaJmln7S.oa8X3YPcjxm/UJ/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "lynnepoling"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "lynnepoling@outlook.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:59:29"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your first name Your last name Your first name Your last name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(193604)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Hi,

As a window guy from Brooklyn I would stay far away.

Steel windows are conductive bringing the cold air in allowing moisture to
condense leading to wood rot and rust.
Modern steel windows manufactures build thermally broken steel units to avoid such problems.

Better off going with a All aluminum (thermal) or an aluminum clad wood.
Any decent company can build custom sized unit to fit any space.

I can be reached at jonah@whqinc.com for more info.