FROZEN PIPES - advice needed
Our contractor just rebuilt our small 5′ X 6′ or so extension off the back of our house. It’s our laundry room. I’m VERY concerned about the water supply pipes and trap bursting in the winter. The supply pipes enter from the cellar into the laundry room via the uninsulated crawl space, so that 3′ of both supply pipes are exposed to the cold before turning up into the wall cavity. There is nothing but air between the dirt and joists. The contractor did double-wrap each pipe with a foam. In addition to these pipes, I am also concerned about the trap, which is in the wall cavity but not well insulated since it’s too big to be wrapped in foam. Also, the freeze-proof water spigot will be installed outside off the extension from the same supply line. The laundry room is off one back corner of the house, and the boiler sits at the other back corner. **Our contractor is suggesting** breaking the top of the house’s rear foundation wall so that there is a 2′ wide X 1′ opening between the cellar and the crawl space to allow the warmer air of the cellar to circulate into the crawl space. **A) is this a good idea, is it sufficient? B) any concerns with removing a portion of the fear foundation to create this opening? C) any other ideas?** I’m worried even if we create the opening the crawl space won’t be sufficiently heated. We have steam heating, so I thought we could install a radiator somehow in the cellar in front of the laundry room, so there will plenty of warm air to seep through the opening into the crawl space. But the contractor said it’s not possible to install a radiator there. (I get that it probably couldn’t be installed on the foundation wall, but couldn’t we place it on a pile of concrete blocks or something?) Other info, in case it’s helpful: The extension’s foundation is brick and separate from the rest of the house. There is nothing but air between the joists and the dirt. There’s a plywood subfloor, and we’ll lay engineered wood or vinyl on top. The walls are insulated (R-16 I believe) and outside facade is vinyl. Thanks!
ps158
in Plumbers and Plumbing 10 years and 5 months ago
9
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9 replies
lui1828 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Is there a shut off valve for the pipe going into the laundry room? The shut off at the washing machine will not help if the pipes burst in the crawl space. Without a shut off for the crawl space pipe you will have to shut the water at the house value. There will be no water in the house until a plumber shows up. The shut off will let you drain the pipe when you go away during the winter. You don’t want to come home to a burst pipe. A $10.00 shut off will save you thousands. Insulation delays the freezing of the pipes. It does not make the pipe freeze proof.
ps158 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Our contractor says it is too late to change the pipes – it would set us back several days and they’ll charge us for it. I’m not sure why he didn’t put the pipes in the wall to begin with – maybe there wasn’t any room? Believe me I wish it were in the walls. I don’t think there’s a drain/shut off into the room now. Would we even want that, given it’s hooked up to the washing machine?
lui1828 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Insulation alone will not prevent pipes from freezing. This winter many homes had frozen water service line. The lines were dug 4 ft deep in the ground and it did not prevent freezing pipes. CMU said it best. The pipes should have been placed inside the laundry room. Did you make provision to be able to drain and shut off the water going into the room? You don’t want to come home to find a busted water pipe.
cmu | 10 years and 5 months ago
Plenty of info on the web. It’s not stuffing the cavity but insulating ‘ceiling’ and walls with rigid pink insulation, and a vapor barrier (maybe plus insulation) on the ground. Don’t see why it’d attract ants.
ps158 | 10 years and 5 months ago
CMU – when you say fill space with insulation…Are you talking about insulating the entire crawlspace? I asked our contractor about doing that, and he said something about if we do that, there will be a big problem with ants if we put plastic down on the ground. What is the proper way to insulate a crawlspace, and will that alone keep the pipes from freezing?
cmu | 10 years and 5 months ago
After looking at your photos, why can’t you totally fill the space with insulation as it seems easily accessible?
cmu | 10 years and 5 months ago
My reaction would be to do it right..run the pipes from your basement through the wall into the room, but it may be too late to redo? If you do what your contracter suggests, you’ll be wasting a lot of heat unless you insulate the crawl space well. Same with radiator. Heat tape on a thermostat may work. Check out elect. usage.
ps158 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Arkady – so are your supply pipes located in a crawl space? I don’t think putting a heater in our laundry room would emit enough heat to below the floors into the crawl space, where the pipes are located. Or would they? I don’t know what heat tape is, I will look that up.
Arkady | 10 years and 5 months ago
I have something similar in my shed. I wrap the pipes in heat tape. I’ve installed a cut-off to the garden right after where I want year-round supply in the shed & I drain from there & leave the hose connection open in the garden. When we have a really long stretch of below-freezing temps I turn on an oil-filled heater in the shed which keeps it about 40 for not much electrical use.