Roof Access Ladder

Thanks in advance – I have a 3 family brownstone in Manhattan.  The second means of eagress is a roof hatch located at the top of the internal stairway.  There is a steel ladder secured to a the wall that allows access to the hatch.  this ladder is on the wall ajacent to the door of the top floor apartment. There are only 2 inches between the end of the ladder and the frame of the steel door. Picture a right angle where one leg of the angle has the ladder and the other has the door.   I would like to remove this ladder and put in a telescoping or a pull down ladder to the hatch.  Is this allowed in a 3 family NYC not historic brownstone built approximately 1900?   Thank you for the help on this,

me4pres

in Brownstoner Renovation 12 years and 3 months ago

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wilso26941 | 12 years and 3 months ago

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Relax Dave, enlightenment is on the way.  The answer is a definitive No. 1\. In buildings in Occupancy Groups R-1 and R-2 two stories in height and in Occupancy Group R-2 three stories in height with not more than one dwelling unit per story, access to the roof shall be permitted to be a noncombustible roof hatch or trap door not less than 21 inches (533 mm)in width and 28 inches (711 mm) in length. Such hatches shall be located within the stair enclosure and be provided with a stationary, noncombustible access ladder or alternating tread device.   Key word:  Stationary.

daveinbedstuy | 12 years and 3 months ago

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Lots of “it would seem” and “i think”here.  Waiting for the actual answer as to whether or not it complies.

pigthree | 12 years and 3 months ago

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I think it would not comply with FDNY fire code.

brokelin | 12 years and 3 months ago

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Don’t know, but one thing to consider with a pull-down ladder (we considered this for a similar spot in our 4-unit coop, on the small landing with the top floor unit door, just not quite so close to the door) is when you (or someone else, if that is allowed) go up to the roof, does the ladder then remain pulled down, blocking someone from going in or out of the top floor apartment?  It may not matter to you, but it could matter to people in that top floor apartment.  Or to the fire department/regulatory agencies if it impeded someone getting out the apartment in a fire, or firefighters getting in.  If you planned to pull the ladder up behind you when you were on the roof, so it would not longer be in the way, is that safe for the person on the roof if they need to get down quickly?  And how can you assure any fire department that you will ALWAYS pull the ladder up out of the way of people in that apartment when you are up there if they need to exit in a fire (you can’t, actually.)  Also, is the pull-down or telescoping ladder you have in mind entirely vertical (not sloping outward) like the one currently attached to the wall? – because in that case, it wouldn’t take up more room than the current one, but indeed likely wouldn’t be as safe and sturdy as the current one – there is a reason that one is attached to the wall for stability.  What is you concern with the current ladder as it is – does it get in the way of the apartment door, being so close to it?  Do you just not like the way it looks there?  Do you want a sloping ships-ladder type of ladder to make access to the roof less vertical and more sloping?  I think you should start with talking to the fire department, as I think they have the main interest in having that ladder there (and unimpeded access to it, which is why you can’t legally leave stuff in the hall blocking access to the currrent ladder), so they probably know the rules, or maybe can point to you wherever the rules exist.  I’m just guessing, but I’m thinking that in a multi-family building, it is unlikely that you can remove the ladder legally – it would seem that it needs to be there, in its current out-of-the-way, but always-there-for-exit-in-a-fire-if-you-need-it manner.  This may not be the case, but as someone who might be in that top floor apartment in a fire and need to exit quickly, I certainly would hope that ability to get out and up that ladder when needed in a fire would take priority legally to any othe concerns.