Need Some Advice: My stoop is 'spalling' to pieces

We have a 3 stair brownstone stoop that was redone along with the building facade within the last 10 years (prior to our purchasing the building). The brownstone work is of pretty high quality and was complimented on by our inspector when we did our original walkthrough. There were a couple of spots over the last year or 2 where the metal banister met the brownstone that the stone looked a little rough but nothing too concerning. All of a sudden after this winter the entire stoop is spalling and splitting apart in various places on various stairs — its literally getting markedly worse by the day. Is there any way to alleviate this degradation short of redoing the whole stoop (this was not in our short term plans). We’re not looking for the perfect solution right now, just a way to ease the pain. Incidentally, the building facade is still in tip top condition (for now) but I’ve obviously got concerns there too. Anyone have any general knowledge or advice to share on with me?

asimplenoise

in Facade and Brownstone Repair 10 years and 2 months ago

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CommodoreStephenDecatur | 10 years and 2 months ago

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@dorkofwindsor, if your stone is somewhat damaged then i think that would be a case where resurfacing is the only remedy, short of getting new slabs. But if they’re in danger of breaking in two and collapsing, then I would think that replacing them would be necessary. (Bluestone being readily available, be glad. From what I’ve read, the only remaining brownstone quarry closed up shop again a couple of years ago.) My complaint regarding my own stoop was that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the steps i.e. brownstone slabs. The issue was some crevices between them, letting in moisture. And the remedy was to eliminate 2-3 inches of the slabs and build up mortar. Parts of it haven’t held up real well after about the seventh year. Interesting about your solid stone support walls of the stoop. Maybe your house is older, or just had a developer that did things another way. Here in BedStuy, every stoop I’ve had the pleasure of looking under has the brick walls I described. And all build between early 1880s and 1895.

dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 2 months ago

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CommodoreStephenDecatur – so if you do not like resurfacing, then what to do with steps that are damaged and crumbling? My neighbors and I all had original giant bluestone blocks as steps but have totally deteriorated. Some are missing massive chunks and quite dangerous. Are you saying to go out any buy massive slabs of stone and have them reset? I can’t imagine how much that would cost and also not everyone wants to pay for the next three owners’ stairs. If you don’t get at least 10 years out of a stoop resurface, you chose the wrong person. BTW, my stoop sides are not brick, they were thick stone as well. Crumbling, but stone nonetheless. My steps going down to the cellar however were of a brick base and should have been rebuilt – they are going to be the first to go i am certain.

john320 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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I recently did a full restoration to my front facade about two years ago in 1st street and i got bids from four contractors A. Malek, J. Mos, Amin Home Improvement and Edison. All four contractors price was about the same but, i decided to go with Amin Home Improvement because they did several projects on our block. Its a family owned company and Amin’s son who was handling the project did a outstanding job of making sure our job was being done to the very high standards of Amin Home Improvement. Amin was very quick to respond and takes great pride in the work being done by his company. To date, we are extremely pleased with the work on our house. The amount of compliments we get from people passing by is unbelievable. My expectations have been widely exceeded on our exterior brownstone restoration plus they been a around for a long time. We have whole heartedly already recommended Amin Home Improvement Inc. to lots of people.

catbk | 10 years and 2 months ago

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We had Roy D re-face our brownstone and stoop about eleven years ago. All is still good. There’s one spot on the stoop where something heavy dropped and chipped a corner chunk off and that’s it. Roy is good – he’s priced fairly – not the highest price, not the lowest. Sorry it took so long to respond!

sjb | 10 years and 2 months ago

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I also used Millad to rebuild my stop a couple of years ago and each year it also crumbles at the turn of the stoop. This year it is much much worse than last year I also do not use salt.

no-permits | 10 years and 2 months ago

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@housenut, if your facade is crooked, your window sills need to be slightly crooked too. same goes with your stoop.

HouseNut | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Not when it comes to steps or major features of a facade which need to be symmetrical!

no-permits | 10 years and 2 months ago

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@housenut, masonry is one of those things that often looks best when eyeballed because other parts of the structure might be uneven.

stone54 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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We used Excellent Contracting (Meraz) few years back and was very happy with the work. It’s still holding up well. But he did advice special maintenance for stoop due to weather and more wear and tear than facade. asimplenoise, options to consider for now are paint or just re-doing the finish coat.

CommodoreStephenDecatur | 10 years and 2 months ago

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The problem is a widespread acceptance of a flawed concept in building repair. We had our stoop “refurbished” early on and have lived to regret it. This method of jackhammering away two to three inches of the solid, impermeable 300-million-year-old stone that the steps are hewn from, and replacing it with tinted mortar is just stupid. And the contractors who perpetuate this idiotic cycle of repair and repair and repair are laughing all the way to the bank. It’s a bad practice and should be discontinued. The results can’t last very long in this climate, and you can’t use salt on it at all. Calcium chloride attracts moisture and make the steps even more dangerous. For refurbished stoops on the shady side of the street, this can be a hopeless situation, brought on by yet another modern corner-cutting sham method. The walls that support the stoop are of brick. The sides on the exterior are clad in relatively thin brownstone, may 3 or 4 inches thick, but the supporting structure is the brick. After a hundred years, these brick walls may be crumbling from too much humidity inside the stoop, or a sometimes, a settling of the ground on which they’re built. It doesn’t take much movement to open crevices that water finds its way into. The more crevices, the more water gets in, the more shifting, and so on. The only proper, sensible, long-lasting way to save the stoop is a reset: lifting all the steps with scaffolding inside, rebuilding the brick walls to their original positioning, strong and precise and then resetting the steps, intact, strong, and beautiful. More cost, but real satisfaction. Oh, and never seal masonry, with ordinary paint, Thoroseal, or parging. All are detrimental to the life of masonry, which needs to breathe.

resident2 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Stoops always corrode a lot more quickly than the rest of the facade, this due to salt, the knocking and banging of scrapping in cold temperatures to clear snow and ice as well as the fact that it freezes and thaws from both sides, from the top and underneath. You must expect to redo the stoop if you want it looking perfect every ten – fifteen years. A well done facade should last a good 30 – 40 years.

donatella | 10 years and 2 months ago

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I got my stoop completely redone 5 years ago by Millad. It is starting to flake a little at the curve of the steps and at the joints where the handrail meets the step. I called Millad and he is going to be repairing it. BTW, I have not used salt on it.

HouseNut | 10 years and 2 months ago

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I had a bad experience with Excellent and would advise against using them. Specifically, they promise very high quality, but don’t have the level of oversight on the job to deliver it. The masons do not measure but “eyeball” instead.

dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 2 months ago

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bedstuy06 – OT but yes it is breathable (if you can live with those colors). if the stairs are in good shape above i think it should be OK just painting for looks. sometimes “contractors” think it will “waterproof” defects or moisture from above, but there is no such coating product that i am aware. in life, water always wins unless you stop it at the source. always. asimplenoise – hard to say – doing stairs and landing below the stoop? If not, i’d shoot for 5k or less, but I’m not familiar with jobs that small. may depend if they have a bigger jobs in the neighborhood. yes if you dont fix it it will get worse each winter, but yours really isn’t that bad overall and sometimes its just not in the budget. I used Amin – stoop guy that is really really good, if he is still there i do like his work. As far as i know there aren’t that many people who do good work. And you will want to hire a good painter for the railings afterwards, because I don’t trust stoop people to do anything but the stoop.

asimplenoise | 10 years and 2 months ago

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dorkofwindsor – thanks for the detail — alas, I don’t think DIY is in my future on this job, it would be a terrible whirlwind of ineptitude and ugliness. Thanks to others for the input as well. Is there any risk of causing more underlying damage by letting it continue to crumble and holding off the inevitable re-work? Lastly, does anyone have a ballpark of cost for redoing a 3 stair stoop before I start reaching out to contractors?

bedstuy06 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Is Thoroseal breathable? We are about to have some work done on our stoop and the contractor wants to Thoroseal the storage area under the stoop stairs. Is that a good idea?

brownstone659 | 10 years and 2 months ago

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Thank you, Arkady!

dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 2 months ago

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this winter was so harsh for stoops. As a stopgap you could find someone to do a repair and then repaint whole stoop with a breathable exterior paint. That final coat looks a bit thin to me anyway (i prefer 1/4 inch). Having said that, prep is key getting all loose cement out, use a special liquid cement to bond new substrate to old, and use a mixture of *fine* sand (of that thickness) and portland cement. In the 60’s with no rain. There are many reasons repairs don’t last, and i think most of the time its because one or more of these steps are fudged. Its actually a PITA job for little pay, and there are plenty who will do a half-assed job. You may find pros that don’t want to touch it or won’t warranty the work. That’s why i have no idea who to recommend and would just do the job myself. Sorry if that was a long winded and unhelpful post.

Arkady | 10 years and 2 months ago

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I like Park Slope Brownstone the absolute best but VinRoy is busy & hard to book. A neighbor of mine was very happy w/ Excellent. Others are working on my block right now but some people have had problems w/ those companies.