Finished Cellars
Continuing my quest to buy a multifamily to live in and I’m trying to understand what can be done in cellars. I generally understand the difference between basements and cellars (above/below 50% grade, etc). Some of the buildings I’ve looked at I could potentially add living space in the cellar, so I want to know what my limitations are. In several buildings I’m looking at it would be ideal to add 2 bedrooms and a full bath in the lower level, but can this be done if it’s a cellar and not a basement?
Based on my understanding, you can legally put a 1/2 bath and a “rec room” in a cellar. In a 1 or 2 family home you’re allowed a full bath but cannot have more than one room (the rec room) in that cellar (not including boiler, laundry, and storage rooms). Is that generally accurate? Seems 3+ families are excluded.
Beyond that, can adding window wells and a means of egress loosen this up? I see a lot of homes that seem to have added these features to make what appears to be a below grade cellar into living space that exceeds the above limitations. Some you can see clearly f rom the street, others I’ve physically been in (like my friends’ condo with 3 bedrooms in their fully below grade lower level, complete with window wells and an exit via a below-grade outdoor space and stairs). So I’m curious if the city allows this with certain provisions or if they’re just skirting the code.
alexwithak
in Dept. of Buildings (DOB) 3 years and 9 months ago
9
Please log in, in order to post replies!
9 replies
chemosphere | 3 years and 8 months ago
Many other cities have laws that define whether or not you can legally have bedrooms in cellars by using window size and exits and ceiling heights and don’t have a 50% above grade rule. It’s possible that sometime in the future NYC changes the law, either by changing the percentage or by discarding that provision entirely. You see this with some of the mayoral candidates using language like “I want to legalize basement apartments”. It’s unclear what that actually means. but it could mean changing the percentage or discarding it. There are so many 1000s of NYC houses with cellars just under 50% which satisfy all the other requirements.
alexwithak | 3 years and 8 months ago
Wow, that’s one way to do it, @chemosphere. As for the C of O for my friends’ condo building, the lower level has “recreation room” listed. I’ll have to ask them about their reno experience. I know when they bought it it was listed as a 1 bedroom, even though the lower level was clearly built with bedrooms.
Anyway, generally seems I shouldn’t count on adding living space other than a rec room and bath (with shower if a 1 or 2 fam) in a cellar.
chemosphere | 3 years and 9 months ago
I’ve seen some recent renovations that convert nearly 50% above grade cellars to just over %50 above grade basements by raising the floor of the first floor and thus getting the cellar/basement ceiling up. before reno the cellar has ~8 ft ceilings, 4.5 ft below ground and 3.5 above ground and the first floor has 10 foot ceilings. After renovations, cellar has 9 ft ceilings, 4.5 below ground and 4.5 above ground, and first floor has 9 foot ceilings. Notice the stoop height and filled in windows compared to the neighbors. [EIJWz5qXkAA_1bO](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s2/:brownstoner:6m9o:eijwz5qxkaa_1bo.jpeg.jpg)
chemosphere | 3 years and 9 months ago
go to the DOB database, look up your friend’s condo, look at the certificate of occupancy and see how it describes the cellar.
alexwithak | 3 years and 9 months ago
Good input on radon. To be clear, I’m not looking to skirt the code myself; I want to know generally what is permitted so when I look at properties I know what my options are for expansion, if necessary. If there’s a property I want to move on that would require this kind of work I’ll certainly consult an architect or GC, but trying to get a broad sense of things before getting to that point.
Based on what I know about the finished cellars I’ve seen, it *seems* like they’d be taking a big risk doing them that way if it wasn’t legal. But of course people do it all the time, so if anyone knows for example that if you add adequate window wells it’s legal or whatever, I’d be curious to hear.
Augustiner | 3 years and 9 months ago
I’m glad Bob mentioned it: despite it being officially a low risk area, Radon is an issue in some Brooklyn cellars. A one day test will not show it, as the values fluctuate throughout the year., and are highest in winter when it snows.
shahnandersen
in Dept. of Buildings (DOB) 3 years and 9 months ago
What you are seeing is probably a room described on the plans as a rec room or office and illegally used as a bedroom.
RobertGMarvin
in Dept. of Buildings (DOB) 3 years and 9 months ago
There may c also be issues with flooding and radon radiation from rubble stone foundations
cate | 3 years and 9 months ago
You are correct, bedrooms cannot be in a below-grade cellar — grade measured from curb. I’m not clear on whether this can be circumvented by the alterations you mention. Consult architect or expediter.