Repairing water damaged floor joists - what joist hangers for brick?

Hi,

I have to reinforce a few floor joists that are “moderately” water damaged on the 2nd floor of a 100 y/o brick row house. The house was a rental for 20 odd years prior, and we knew there had been plumbing/radiator leaks, but only after I removed the old floors did we realize that it damaged the joists. They are fairly solid still, but definitely damaged, and we will be adding tile floors and a cast iron clawfoot tub (4′, I guess 2-300 lbs), so we want to minimize deflection and reinforce for added weight. I will sister some of them to reinforce (plywood, screwed and glued), but a couple are pretty bad, and also have large notches (about 3.5′ x 3.5″, maybe 10″ from the pocket) cut in the top for the (original) waste water lines. An engineer advised to add a joist adjacent to the worst 2 joists which I think is a good solution – especially for one joist which is warped from the water damage. My question is, what type of joist hanger can I use? The main considerations are the brick being close to 100 y/o, so can’t do a lot of drilling into them (1 hole, screw/anchor per brick), and preferring not to add a lintel as that would mean we would have to lower the kitchen ceiling below adding time and cost when we do that reno later. I was looking at some Simpson hangers, and was thinking this might be an option: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/MBHU_Masonry.asp, but I am a bit concerned about drilling a 3/4″ hole, 5″ into the wall for the supplied anchor bolts which will go through the first row of bricks, I believe. If anyone has any experience or suggestions for either adding joists, or otherwise resolving, I would appreciate! I was thinking of attaching that hanger with anchors like this: http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/mechanical/wedge-all/index.html (it doesn’t say brick, but it does say it’s for “grout-filled masonry”), or tapcon screws. Another idea is to get some steel plates fabricated with pockets and long enough to go on the face of say, 4 rows of brick (vertically). So you know, 1 wall is an exterior wall, and the other side is a party wall shared by 2 houses. Also, we are planning to put in underfloor radiant heat using Pex tubing, but I don’t think that will be a factor in how we attach.

PleasantPlainer

in DIY 13 years and 10 months ago

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PleasantPlainer | 13 years and 10 months ago

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Thanks. This is good advice. After removing the ceiling I found a cracked joist I hadn’t notices, and more extensive rot on another at the bottom than could be seen from above. I am leaning towards replacing 3 joists using salvaged joists or LVLs (to get true 2x size) and the existing pockets. The base of the existing pockets is brick – there is no mortar between the brick and the joist. It just rests on the brick. Now wondering if I should remove bricks from the side, or above to get them in. Then there is the little issue of the hallway outside the bathroom that has original wood floors resting on these same joists. Perhaps I can do new pockets next to the current joists. But that will mean tearing out or cutting bricks on the party wall…

masterbuilder | 13 years and 10 months ago

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Bricks are usually soft to softer and not good candidates for face mounting of anything structural.  You should consider making a pocket into the masonry so the sistered joists rest on top of the brick wall below it.

Grout filled masonry are steel reinforced concrete masonry blocks – new construction.  Not old.

There are also special sleeve anchors best for attaching material to brick.  Not to be confused with anchors rated for concrete – which could easily fracture a brick.  The wedge anchor is not suited for old brick as you have to hammer it into an undersized hole.  Masonry sleeve anchors expand inside a slightly oversized hole, and over-tightening could also fracture the brick.  While these fasteners have shear ratings, old brick does not!

I have used sleeve anchors to make a rim joist on the face of brick but I would never consider using joist hangers.  You should discuss further with your engineer.

Here’s a link to the hardware I am writing about:  http://www.concretefasteners.com/diy-articles/brick-anchors.aspx

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 10 months ago

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Why not just hang a ledger board on the brick and then use joist hangers on that?