Permit for Deck off parlor with fire escape?
http://cdn.brownstoner.com/4f11db3b3ac3f-.jpg
We have run into trouble obtaining a permit for building a deck off of our parlor. We go the landmakrs but the DOB won’t approve because of a problem with the fire safety code. We live in three family (we occupy bottom two and rent out top three) so we are required to keep our fire escape. I know of or have heard of other people who have been successful obtaining permits for decks either by moving the ladder up a flight so it comes off of third floor and would be lowered onto the deck and then people can exit down the fixed stairs leading from the deck to the ground or having the fire escape stair leading from the third floor terminate on the deck, and then using fixed stairs to ground for exit. But our budget architect (I know, I know…) has had four meetings with the plan exaiminer and he won’t approve either solution. Instead he wants us to maintain the existing fire escape, with the drop down ladder and railing, and then build our deck around it, so anyone (including our small children) escaping a fire would have to climb down the ladder rather than being able to access a fixed staircase. This makes no sense to me! IThey are arguing that because the deck is recreational, furniture might interfere with the egress of the fire escape. But we are planning on having the stairs to the yard be on the left side in this photo, so it will be a straight shot from the bottom of the fire escape stairs. Obviously no one would put furniture in the pathway between a door and a stair. I’m scheduling another appointment with the plan examiner where I’m going to attend and am hoping to have some examples of approved decks with fire escapes. I know of one with the ladder. Does anyone know of any others? Or having any advice on how to proceed or know of an architect whom we could hire for a as a consultant to come to the next meeting with the plan examiner? I’d be incredibly grateful, especially since we already have the doors and now they lead to nowhere . Thanks! .
pitythefool
in Decks and Porches 13 years and 7 months ago
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9 replies
ihg | 13 years and 4 months ago
Kinda looking to do the same thing and was wondering how this turned out? Please share update if you can. Thanks
dazednconfused2 | 13 years and 7 months ago
Happy to help. Chief plan examiner is not the same as deputy commissioner. You might get some headway there, but don’t hold your breath. The rationale (and it’s a stretch to use that word) given to me for the ladder had something to do with if the ladder is retracted, it’s protected should something happen on the ground level that would make the stairs unusable in a fire. Makes sense at first, until you realize that if there was a fire that would damage the stairs, you wouldn’t drop the ladder down into it to escape a fire. You wouldn’t go to the rear yard at all if there was a fire there. You’d use the fire escape to go to the roof or exit out the front. It’s an uphill battle for sure, but good luck with it. Research as much as you can and come to your meeting with print-outs of all pertinent sections of the code. Also, check out the MDL: http://www.tenant.net/Other_Laws/MDL/mdltoc.html. Post back and let us know how it goes.
pitythefool | 13 years and 7 months ago
Thanks Jim for weighing in. I was hoping an architect who knows what he’s talking about would, since the ones we hired, based on a recommendation, do not seem to. My fear is that with a more knowledgeable persuasive person, we wouldn’t find ourselves now in this position with plan examiner. Although you seem to be suggested that this irrationality expands beyond our case. Because, in my opinion, insisting on a drop down ladder in addition to a fixed non-combustible stair really seems irrational. Who doesn’t agree that it is safer to exit via a fixed stair? In your experience, are they open to being persuaded? I’m pouring over the section of the code 15-10 that deals with the fire escape, hoping to find some support for our argument. Waste of time? Also is the chief plan examiner the same person as the deputy commissioner? I think we are going to have a meeting with him/her next.
dazednconfused2 | 13 years and 7 months ago
Even if you get an example of a deck with a stairs functioning as a fire escape, it’s unlikely that the DOB will approve it. The chief plan examiner has specifically stated to me recently that they are adhering more closely than ever to the original design as presented in the Multiple Dwellings Law. Access to the ground must be provided by a drop down ladder from the lowest level of the fire escape. This does not mean that you need to keep the last level of the fire escape. You can have a non-combustible deck with a drop down ladder in addition to stairs, but that ladder has got to be there.
agdipierro
in Decks and Porches 13 years and 7 months ago
You can build a without affecting the fire escape. Go to www.edkopel.com, Park Slope Brownstone, Photo #3.
pitythefool | 13 years and 7 months ago
OP here. No sprinklers. Otherwise I would just get rid of the fire escape.
pigthree | 13 years and 7 months ago
Do you have sprinklers in the home?
pitythefool | 13 years and 7 months ago
Op here. Please excuse typos,… We got the Landmarks, I meant to say. Also, we live in bottom two and rent out top two, four floors in total. Thanks for the link to those funky stairs. One would think if those were approved mine would be no problem!
JorgeF | 13 years and 7 months ago
Here is a link to a deck with a counterbalanced pivoting fire stair. I worked on this as an intern about 10 years ago. It was aproved and built. http://systemarchitects.net/proj/stairs01pb.html