Renovating a Coop
We recently got a coop in les and worked with an architect to see what is possible with building codes, coop rules, etc. I want to get an idea of how much such a renovation **should** cost. The basic tenets are General Demo basically two 15 ft walls, one 10 ft and one 5ft wall. All drywalls I think. Demo existing closets Demo existing kitchen Build three new drywalls baseboard (not sure if its necessary) 8 ft doors in the new walls. New closets in the bedroom – basically a lot of closet doors (x6) Minimal electric work (see kitchen) Not sure about paint, finshing.. minimal here Minimal flooring but also price out the option for bamboo floor or vinyl. Kitchen Move gas line, plumbing for sink and dishwasher additional electric point Put in new closets Bathroom Most plumbing basically the same as before, except moving the sink. New fixtures New tiles I am attaching the before and after plans. Any help to estimate cost and time is really appreciated.
saurabh
in Construction 10 years and 8 months ago
9
Please log in, in order to post replies!
9 replies
riva | 10 years and 8 months ago
best to have onsite estimate www.rivacontracting.net
camp6ell | 10 years and 8 months ago
The beauty of living in a coop is that you are surrounded by people who live in very similar spaces, and many will have already gone through a similar process. If you talk to them, not only will you get an idea of cost (with an outline of the scope of the work), but you’ll get a recommendation (or not!) for a contractor too. If you haven’t met anyone yet, put up a message on the building notice board or email list.
greenmountain | 10 years and 8 months ago
This has been a very honest discussion between home owners and service providers. I understand that many of us on both sides are stressed by the tremendous difficulties of making a living in NYC. Clearly it should not be so stressed on contractors that we are unable to supervise workers, pay them lawfully, or choose between paying workers in full or losing money. These are some of the issues we face when we consider which clients we are willing to work for. We must be very careful not to say how much a job will cost, if there is any possibility of misleading a client. Nobody wants to run out of money in the middle of a job. I am interested in hearing from any contractors following this thread who would like to work on improving the home improvement industry. You can find me in the brownstoner find a pro. Or search on Green Mountain Construction and Design.
zag0r | 10 years and 8 months ago
Labor and time only? No supervision, no insurance, no overhead, no material costs, no equipment investment, no licensing fees, no general conditions, no carting costs, no expenses of any kind, no unexpected surprises, no contingency and no profit. Resident2’s first sentence is realistic.
camp6ell | 10 years and 8 months ago
$50k
saurabh | 10 years and 8 months ago
Thank you for the replies. I realize the this is incomplete information but let me try to provide more more details based on discussions – 1) The coop is in post war and in great condition. Both ceiling and floor are concrete. 2) No drilling into floor is allowed, so the pipes will have to be wrapped around on walls. This is possible and already checked. Similar plans have been approved as well. 3) I don’t want to count the cost of fixtures, cabinets, etc. I realize you can get something second hand from craigslist for cheap or expensive smeg appliances. I only want to estimate labor and time. 4) Flooring could remain unmatched and have vinyl on top. 5) Thanks for bringing up the workers comp issue. It is good to understand. I am not sure if this is enough information to provide a rough estimate but hoping it helps.
nyc_sport | 10 years and 8 months ago
I agree that no ballpark is possible here, and your description attempts to trivialize what is non-trivial plumbing and electric work, in terms of relocating supply and waste lines, and getting new dedicated electric service for refrigerator, dishwasher stove (and gas line for stove??), all while hoping that none are in the walls you plan to move. You must do something with the flooring, as it is nearly certain, unless this was a converted loft, that there is no flooring under the walls that will be removed, and presumably the current kitchen has some sort of tile. So, at the very least, you have a fair amount of complicated patchwork to do, which may not be worth the effort if the floor is not worth preserving or not capable of being matched. As suggested above, you need a firmer idea of what you want done to get pricing ideas. Hopefully, your architect explored the feasibility of moving these walls before drawing the plans (for one, the thickness of the walls in the to be removed front closet is concerning and suggests that there might be something in them (i.e., electric/telephone/intercom lines for the building)).
greenmountain | 10 years and 8 months ago
I recently investigated websites connecting contractors to home owners, and I see some attempts to answer questions like yours. A lot of home owners want to know in advance, so if a contractor seems out of the ballpark, they know there is a problem. But, it is far from an honest or independent process. Anybody who claims to know what your project will cost, and is simultaneously trying to have contractors pay them for leads, is going to name an attractively low price. If they claim to take money from home owners, or purely from advertisers, and they give you a price sight unseen, you can’t trust them either. One website, I know, is trying to address this problem, but they charge contractors 5% of the contract price of the job, which raises the cost to home owners, and rules out lower paying ones altogether. Another problem is the expense of insurance, particularly worker’s comp, and payroll taxes, and even personal income taxes. Your coop will require insurance certificates, but it is still easy and common for a contractor to pay 2 % to cash your check and pay workers in cash, saving 18 % on comp, which is payroll based, and keeps going up. Or, you could cut down on labor costs by paying cash directly. It is also easy and common to misclassify employees as independent contractors, saving about 20 % in payroll taxes. And if workers are paid in cash, they can save the home owner about 20%, by accepting the cash, and not filing their personal tax returns. So, there is a range of about 0 – 60 % of payroll in labor cost above take-home pay between full fraud and full compliance. If you want the price of an honest contractor, ask a licensed contractor for an estimate. But, even a licensed contractor has to compete with the majority of contractors who are not licensed, many even working in coops. I don’t think a unionized building staff changes the price of contracting in your apartment much, but it is cheaper and easier to work in freestanding houses. Unionized workers mostly work in new construction, not renovations, and almost never home improvements.
resident2 | 10 years and 8 months ago
It is vertically impossible to give you even a range of approximate costs to the point of it being worthless to your question. Much will depend on the building; the current construction is it concrete and steel? wood, lath and plaster? Pre-War- Post war? high rise? Union? Even the block it is on can substantially increase demo and delivery costs. Some Co-Ops have elevator charges etc. Then the plumbing risers, gas lines etc. I would find it a very rare co-op board that would allow you to completely relocate the kitchen like that. Is it on the ground floor? even then how is the plumbing going to be vented? It is extremely difficult to relocated plumbing from the existing risers. Yes you will need base boards if you are putting up new walls, but again the prices vary greatly. Finishes: hollow core doors/ sold wood doors. Custom/off the self. Moldings, hardware…… For a kitchen of that size; without the plumbing riser issue, just cabinets, counters, appliances can range anywhere from $10,000 – $30,000+. A stove alone can be anywhere from $1,500 to $10,000\. The bathroom, depending on choices of fixtures, tiles etc. Wall tiles can be an average low level range $10.00 a sq foot + installation to $20-30 a square foot. Start by speaking to the building manager to ask about the plumbing riser issue, ask what prior large alterations have been approved in the building and how the board handles such issues. Go on line and look at what you really want as far as fixtures fittings etc, price those out and add on at least 100% for labor demo etc and you will come up with a VERY VAGUE idea.