Unique 3 family brownstone reno project. Need help on where to get started.

After looking for months for a Brooklyn Brownstone, it looks as though we finally found one. I was really hesitant about purchasing a flip, because of the low quality craftsmanship and finishes, and very happy we didn’t. The house we should have an accepted offer on tomorrow is a 16.75 wide narrow brownstone by 45 feet in length. What is unique about this home is that it was a rehab gone bad. I am assuming when they opened up all of the walls to start this project it ended up being much greater then the current homeowner expected, and things didn’t go as planned. The house is a legal 3 family by CO with no sprinklers. It does have a fire escape though. They had plans drawn up by Phillip Toscano in 2005\. The plans were filed & approved, but the work was never finished. The home has been completely gutted, with all new plumbing, all new subfloors, and all of the details of the home have been saved and stored. The house has no heat, hardly any electric ran, and the entire house from bottom to top is all exposed brick…. I guess this saves me a good amount of a headache of cleaning up and seeing exactly what I am dealing with here… Also the joist in the basement has been replaced to steel. That being said, I do not wish to use the plans from 2005\. There are some things I would like to change and some things I would like to keep. 1\. Where do I start? Should I go back to the original architect for any reason? 2\. I only have the paper plans. Maybe he has them on disc which would be helpful to my new architect who I need to hire? 3\. Since the house is totally gutted, with all new beams and subfloors, plumbing, etc, I am curious to know what this will cost me to finish since I do not need anything structural. I would like to do the house on the high end side. 4\. The home will have a owners duplex with 2 bedrooms on the bottom floor, and living room, kitchen, on the parlor floor. Can anyone recommend a good architect while working on a tight budget? Do you think the remaining work can be done for under 250k? When should I look into an expeditor? THANKS!!!

stuyheights

in Brownstoner Renovation 11 years and 9 months ago

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energyefficiencygrantsguru | 11 years and 8 months ago

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You should definitely look into state incentive programs that offer grants to homeowners for purchasing energy efficient mechanical equipment. I know for a fact that NYSERDA offers incentives for the HVAC, lighting,and insulation.

joegc | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Let me chime in as a GC in Bed Stuy. Anything is possible depending on the client. Unless I meet and sit down with you, it is impossible to say if 250K can get the job done. If you are particular and like nice finishes, it is not worth trying. If you can make sacrifices and prioritize what is important, you can get it down. I agree with bedstuyreno about getting mechanics, layout and structure done and then come back to finishes. You have real shot to make the plumbing and electrical correct but finishes can be done anytime. Joe Lewis

Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago

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@bedstuyreno: Preach! Oh yes. Relieve us from our realistic thoughts! What is knowledge compared to belief? Teach us how to fly high in the Bed Stuy sky.

bedstuyreno | 11 years and 9 months ago

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The prices quoted here a little crazy. I’m doing a complete renovation (owner’s duplex and 2 rentals) with permits, architect and licensed CG and my budget is under 150K. I have lots of money saving tips- maybe that should be the topic of my next post. I would spend the bulk of the budget on the mechanics- plumbing, electrical and any structural work. The other stuff can come later and skip the design build firms. But you can email at 7andfive@gmail.com

curated | 11 years and 9 months ago

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just5581 A correctly done job with all soft costs (plans, permits, expediting, special inspections etc) will definitely cost you between 200-250/sf. That also assumes that work that has been done is correct and does not need to be fixed. Just because some of the plumbing has been done does not mean you will find a plumber to finish the job and certify that what is there is proper. Our specialty is full gut renovations and there is a lot that goes into completing one properly. http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/curated

hawaiismurf | 11 years and 9 months ago

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also you dont need to worry about an expediter anytime soon. what you really want is an architect, but a design-build guy (like Curated) would be better, so that the design can incorporate the budget constraints vs doing endless iterations to meet your budget.

hawaiismurf | 11 years and 9 months ago

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I concur with curated and august that its a lot more. for example – sprinklers will be at least 30k, electric will be 75k, new HVAC will be 50k+, and thats before starting on any finishes… if you want a high end kitchen, cabinets are 50k+ and appliances are 15K and up to 25k. Etc etc

stuyheights | 11 years and 9 months ago

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curated- You believe it will cost me 750k to renovate 2800 square feet? There is nothing structural to be done, all the copper plumbing has been completed. All new beams, all new subfloors, and the house has been completely gutted down to the bricks. The layout is also framed out. With all of this being done, you still think it will cost me over $250sf for an owners duplex done nicely and two modest rentals?

curated | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Before you sign the purchase contract you should make sure your renovation budget is realistic. A 4 story, 3 family of about 2800 square feet as you have described can in no way be correctly renovated with permits for 250k. You will most likely end up needing 2.5 to 3 times that figure. http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/curated

stuyheights | 11 years and 9 months ago

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bedstuyreno- I would LOVE to chat with you about your project if you are open to it? Im sure you could save me a huge headache with this project. I would greatly appreciate it.

slopefarm | 11 years and 9 months ago

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We bought a botched reno and started from scratch. You should hire the architect you trust and are comfortable with and who is attuned to what you want. probably worth at least reaching out to old architect for any info, engineering repports, etc. dealing with existing conditions and structural issues he may have encountered, but there is no advantage to hiring him unless you like him for your job. Count yourself lucky that the demo is done so there ought to be fewer surprises, which you usually learn during demo when you get to see behind the walls.

resident2 | 11 years and 9 months ago

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Speak to the original architect, if you can work with him, it should save you a lot of time and money just to update and amend the plans. No contractor can give you a real price until you have a full set of construction drawings from the architect, otherwise you are just looking at apples v oranges quotes. The main differences in prices are going to be fixtures and finishes as well as specs on mechanical systems. A cheap electrician will not allow for enough 3 way switches and all those other things for example, that become annoying once you are living in your compromised budgeted renovation, with your cheaper windows that start adjusting after six months! You certainly cannot do a 4 sty 3 family for $250,000 unless you are using a lot of illegal day laborers and you on site all day, every day.

bedstuyreno | 11 years and 9 months ago

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A reno can really range in costs- depends on the contractor, architect, finishes. It’s kinda like buying shoes- you can spend a $1000 on a pair of shoes or your can spend $50 and it comes down to a matter of taste, budget and value. With that said, I personally think you can definitely complete a quality (not luxury) renovation for under $250K. My advice would be to start with a new team and solicit bids from several architects and contractors. I blog about my own renovation here on Brownstoner and on my personal blog (bedstuyreno.wordpress.com). Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago

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You should call the old architect to maybe find out what’s wrong. There is not a real reason to hire the old architect, who knows maybe he is the factor why things went south. He will not give you his CAD files if you don’t pay him for his design. I’d just start fresh. A budget of 250 sounds unrealistic for renovating a gutted 3 family. If you end up paying 500 incl all permits and side costs it will be a good deal. Sure, you will hear it can be be done for less, but that’s exactly what the previous owner believed, too 🙂

metalwork | 11 years and 9 months ago

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I think you should use the old architect, seeing that he has history with the building, and it may save you time and money. as for the other questions, its best to speak with a GC.