The correct order of a renovation

I could certainly use some advice. I own a brownstone in Crown Heights. I am going to change the C of O from an SRO to a 3 family house. I have my Certificate of Non Harassment! What is the best order to begin the renovation. I have been talking to brokers who keep sending me to loan officers. These loan officers tell me that I should get my loan NOW even before I have picked a contractor or architect, obtained rough designs of how I wish to renovate etc. This surely must be the wrong way to go about a renovation. In my opinion, I think you (1) do a rough drawing of what you want, (2) show it to a contractor that can give me an idea of the cost, (3) then take my rough drawing to an architect who will review it, (4) draw up plans to make it meet NYC code and begin to obtain the proper permits and (5) THEN obtain my renovation loan. I would also think the contactor and I would discuss how the cost of items such as toilets, flooring, toilets, bathtubs, windows etc. Am I overlooking something? I want to make sure I am approaching this renovation in the correct way. Any advice would be appreciated.

ferney1c

in Brownstoner Renovation 11 years and 8 months ago

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meperez | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Hello Ferney1C! Congratulations on such an ambitious project! I am a Renovation Mortgage Specialist and I would HIGHLY recommend you get at least pre-qualified, if not, pre-approved BEFORE you spend a single penny so you know exactly how much you of a budget you are working with. I would suggest you decide what must be done now to get you approved for your Certificate of Occupancy and what can wait, like a beautiful back splash or fancy moldings. A 3 family conversion has specific requirements, like a sprinkler system, and it fees can be high, so you may have to prioritize. Please let me know if you need suggestions for materials. I finished my own brownstone renovation a few years ago and I have lots of resources.

brokelin | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Are the loan officers telling you that you should take the loan now, or just that you should get pre-approved for the loan (find out exactly how much they will loan you, based on your ability to repay?) Because finding out how much you can borrow, based on some basic assumptions about the building and the rents you will charge, seems both necessary and doable, I would think, to doing any sort of renovation.

Augustiner | 11 years and 8 months ago

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I was so baffled by this Schnall thing that I forgot to put my two cents in: – consider doing things parallel rather than one after the other. – your serial approach already prooved to be expensive: your plans should be ready and filed months ago. The ConH could have been added to the filing set later. – as nycdesigner said: get all the money you can, it will cost more than that anyway. – the cost of windows and bathrooms is not what will be breaking the bank, it´s that you are doing a new C of O from nothing. You are in for a ride….if you feel like talking to someone who´s been through the whole ordeal contact me: bv1515@zoho.com I found the biggest surprises were things like digging a new water main for your mandatory new sprinkler system, and the multifamily firecode in general. You are also forced to do all new electrical and plumbing, because it needs to comply with the latest code.

nycdesignerr | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Rule #1 is that you can’t afford to do everything that needs to be done. Rule #2 is you need the biggest loan that you can possibly get to do as much as you CAN do. Rule #3 is that banks aren’t sympathetic to your “needs”. They only care about you paying back the loan. If you are converting to a 3 family, that means documents on the return on investment that you expect to happen. Real world numbers. It’s a LOT more involved than you think to do this. And it sometimes seems circular chasing your tail. You can’t get a loan without plans, and you can’t plan without a loan. That’s why it’s important to have the inspection report for the building that shows what needs to be done as general upgrades, vs. the 3 family conversion. Like, the foundation needs work, the roof needs work, the electrical needs to be upgraded, etc. All of that will need to happen regardless of the division.

Augustiner | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Ok HOLD ON a minute. I remember something now. I did an SRO to 3 fam and Scott Schnall gave me the same story that his grandfather did work on the house. How are the odds? Like 0 percent. I never saw a file, and think about it: how could there be one – its all on record, and beside that – if it’s not on record what would be the use? What a nice emotional marketing plot. You could also call it a lie. Wow.

ferney1c | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Dear Cate, A 203K loan can also be used to rehab a building that you already own.

ferney1c | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Dear Jockdeboeraia, How long does it realistically take for an architect to do drawings? The building is 4 stories high and I would need drawings for each floor. I believe I am eligible to do a cashout refinance (which I would prefer doing) instead of a 203K loan. A 203K loan is my last resort.

cate | 11 years and 8 months ago

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A 203K loan for a house you already own?

jockdeboeraia | 11 years and 8 months ago

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IF you are doing a 203k loan you will need schematic drawings early on. If you are talking to the right contractor then you will get good advice. Just there are many code related items that will effect your chosen layout also very early on.

7andfive | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Hi, Well you have to start with a ballbark on what you can afford. My reno budget was roughly 100K because that’s how much I could borrow. The budget determined what I could actually work on. Once you have your loan amount/budget in place, then hire an architect that can work within your budget. The contractors will use the plans from the architect to make bids. Get line items bids that show the break out of labor and materials. A renovation manager is a bit of controversial topic- some people find them invaluable while others don’t see the point. But he/she is the person that looks at your project/budget and then helps you select the right architect, contractor expeditor and then manages the project for you from start to finish

ferney1c | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Hello 7andfive, Thanks for replying so quickly to my posting! I most certainly want to do everything I need to do AND execute it in the correct order. The following questions might indicate I am a novice concerning renovation but I’m going to ask them anyway. Better safe than sorry. And actually I have never renovated anything! How do you determine your budget/loan amount without having rough plans to show a contractor? I’m looking for a middle of the road renovation cost. I am also trying to manage the debt. I figured I would have some rough plans and alter them to the budget. Also because I am changing the C of O, I am strongly considering Scott Schall (who is an expeditor) as my architect. His Grandfather did previous architectural work on the building and he has a file with the original building plans! I’m thinking between Mr. Schall, a contractor and possibly a designer, I would be able to make a very complete plan that would show how much money I would need. I could do a refinance for that amount plus contingent money for problems! I want to do as many steps as possible before taking the loan because I would like to shorten the time period where I personally pay it. Also by “Renovation Manager” do you mean “General Contractor”? And if these two titles are not the same, where do you find a “Renovation Manager”? Thank you for your advise.

7andfive | 11 years and 8 months ago

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Hi, I’m also a new homeowner going through a renovation. I think your steps are mostly right but not necessarily in the right order. I think you first need to 1)determine your budget/loan amount, 2) interview an architect that can work within your budget 3) find contractors to bid on the work 4) Get the loan 5) start work You might need a renovation manager to make the process somewhat easier. Also, lots of people on the boards have recommended contractors and architects- so go back to the old messages to get a few names. I think there are a few in the directory and I can pass along a couple as well.