Retaining wall question
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We recently moved into our home and now are taking on our backyard. Our neighbor have a concrete elevated backyard (4″ above our yard )with a above ground pool. There is a partially intact and partially concaved/crumbeling retaining wall in yard. We have a very nice neighbor and plan to talk with them this weekend about retaining wall issue. What are the rules and common practices as it relates to these wall? Since the wall is holding up their yard do they need to fix it? Is it a shared expense? And on the more technical side what are different options for economically fix or replace a retaining wall. We plan to plant trees to create a visual field between us and the pool (and our backdoor neighbors too).
lake
in Brownstoner Renovation 12 years ago
9
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9 replies
brokelin | 12 years ago
A 12 ft. X 24 ft oval above ground pool with a 52″ high wall holds 6,797 gallons. If the side wall is 48″, it is 5,948 gallons. (12′ x 20′ feet is also a size I see but didn’t find the gallons for listed. So reduce by one-sixth if only 20 ft long.). 11′ x 18′ oval with 48″ walls holds 5,000 gallons. multiply those gallon figures by 8.34 lbs per gallon and all you”ve learned is that cmu has some very (impossibly) obese neighbors. (Some people have to be right, even when they are not).
lake | 12 years ago
There is about 10″ soil and the about 10″ of concrete and then pool. The oval pool is about 20′ at the longest part and 4′ high.
needmtg | 12 years ago
It’s probably 150g=1200 lbs. Even at double that, my point was that a pool that size could in NO WAY affect the stability of normal ground. OP, what is the elevation difference?
Arkady | 12 years ago
6 hefty neighbors would not weigh more than the water in that pool. 8 lbs per gallon.
backeast | 12 years ago
Hi – I am just going through this myself. My understanding is that the wall is the responsibility of whoever’s property it is on (not necessarily whose land it is retaining). Check your survey and see whether the wall is on your side, their side, or goes right down the middle. If it straddles both properties, you are jointly responsible. That being said, the practical and neighborly thing to do even if it’s one one property, IMHO, is to split the cost. In my experience it is not a cheap or minor job, and may involve some ripping up of your yard. Here is an old thread about this issue: http://forum.brownstoner.com/question/HPTBAHT3FK0=/retaining-wall-replacement-questions And this is from the NYC Administrative Code: **§28-305.1.1 Structures located on the lot line of adjacent properties
and partially on both properties. The owners of adjacent properties
shall be responsible jointly for the proper maintenance and repair of
retaining walls, partition fences and other site structures, or portions
thereof, that are located along the common lot line and on both their
properties; and each such owner shall be responsible for one-half of the
costs of maintaining and repairing such fences, retaining walls and
other site structures, or such portions thereof. Where an owner elects
to remove temporarily a retaining wall or partition fence that is
required to support a grade differential between the two properties, or
for any other reason is required by this code, such owner shall protect
the adjacent property, shall not impair its safe use, and shall replace
the retaining wall or partition fence at his or her own cost. §28-305.1.2 Structures located entirely on one property. Where such
retaining walls, partition fences or other site structures, or portions
thereof, are located entirely on one property, the owner of such
property shall be wholly responsible for the proper maintenance and
repair of the retaining wall, partition fence or other site structure.
If, however, the proper maintenance and/or repair of such retaining
wall, partition fence or other site structures requires access to the
adjoining property, the owner of such adjoining property shall allow
such access. §28-305.4.1 Retaining wall. For the purposes of this section,
retaining wall shall mean a wall that resists lateral pressures and
limits lateral displacement caused by soil, rock, water or other
materials, except that basement and vault walls that are part of a
building, underground structures, including but not limited to utility
vault structures, tunnels, transit stations and swimming pools, shall
not be considered retaining walls.**
needmtg | 12 years ago
might=built
needmtg | 12 years ago
4″ ? Seems so small an elevation difference that I doubt the wall is even necessary. I think this is more of an esthetic issue, replacing a crumbly wall with a strudy fence might on concrete blocks might do it. And I doubt the weight of the pool pictured, if that’s the real one, makes any difference whatsoever. SIx hefty neighbors would weigh more.
Townie | 12 years ago
Here are two helpful links. I would try and settle this with your neighbor before going to DOB but … For Immediate Release April 17, 2013 BUILDINGS COMMISSIONER ROBERT LIMANDRI LAUNCHES ANNUAL NO-PENALTY RETAINING WALL INSPECTION PROGRAM Homeowners Can Call 311 to Request a Penalty-Free Inspection at No Cost Buildings Commissioner Robert LiMandri today announced the Department’s 9th annual No-Penalty Retaining Wall Inspection Program. Under the program, New Yorkers can request a free inspection of their retaining wall without the threat of receiving a violation if the wall is found to be in poor condition. During inspections, Department inspectors will examine a wall’s structural conditions to check if there is any bulging, displaced material or if the wall is leaning. If repairs are needed, the Department will defer issuing violations to allow property owners time to take corrective action. However, if dangerous conditions are found, the Department will take immediate action to make sure the unsafe conditions are corrected as soon as possible. Inspections can be requested between today, April 17 and May 31, by calling 311. “Maintaining a retaining wall can mean the difference between a summer of fun or a summer of stress for a property owner,” said Commissioner LiMandri. “That’s why we’re reminding property owners to have their retaining wall inspected by a professional or ask the Department for a free, no-penalty inspection under our annual program. This inspection will provide owners with the opportunity to fix any structural conditions before it’s too late – saving an enormous amount of time, money and heartache.” Launched in 2005, the No-Penalty Retaining Wall Inspection Program was created following the collapse of a retaining wall above the Henry Hudson Parkway. The program seeks to ensure that retaining walls in New York City are properly maintained in order to prevent future accidents. Over the past five years, the Department has performed more than 400 retaining wall inspections as part of the program. Retaining walls are designed to hold back soil that would otherwise move to a more natural slope or incline if the wall were not in place. Over time, these walls can deteriorate as the seasons change and temperatures rise and fall, posing a safety risk to nearby buildings. By law, property owners are required to maintain these walls and perform periodic inspections of them every five years and submit reports on their condition to the Department. New Yorkers are encouraged to call 311 to report any non-compliant conditions. For more information, please visit the Department’s website at www.nyc.gov/buildings. Contact: Tony Sclafani/Gloria Chin (212) 566-3473
brokelin | 12 years ago
I don’t know the legalities here, but you will indeed be lucky if you have neighbors who will fix the wall that holds up their yard, or who agree to share expenses of rebuilding it with you. Once you have that talk out of the way, figure out how to hide the crumbling wall and their yard (unless you want to fix it yourself, though that may be tricky with the weight of the water in an above ground pool so close by). I like the wall of trees idea, but I would likely also build a wood fence to go behind the trees so I didn’t have to see the pool or crumbling wall through the trees as they grow. Then when you neighbor’s yard falls into yours, behind your fence, it is clear nothing you did was the cause of the fall of their yard and failure of the wall, which was no doubt exacerbated by the weight of the water in that pool pressing down on it.