Investigating total renovation, including structural work, can this house be saved?

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I’ve been looking through the archives and the forums here for something similar to what I’m considering but I think this situation is more extreme than most of the others I’ve seen here.  I looked today at a property that needs a TOTAL gut renovation.  It’s a 3 story, 2 unit building with an iffy layout and some issues that seem to indicate further problems concealed within.  It needs 2 new kitchens, and 2 new bathrooms as well as new floors and possibly new walls.  In the entry hall the floor is sagging and the floors in the other rooms on the entry level are not even.  The staircase from the basement to the first floor is crooked and has no banister, the stairs to the second floor seem level but also have no bannisters.  The bathrooms are missing fixtures already, leading me to believe someone considered renovating this house and then for some reason stopped.  It is not currently in livable condition. The walls are losing plaster and there seems to be water damage in a number of areas, including a large piece of plaster on one of the upper floors that has been removed to reveal disintegrating pieces of lath. They may have rotted, it may be water damage, it was hard to tell.  In the basement level part of the flooring had been removed to reveal a hole where the water pipe for the building is now exposed.  There are a number of other areas in the house where wall, ceiling, or floor pieces have been removed.  The electrical box is located in a semi-exterior area and is badly rusted. Also, a look at the exterior front of the house at the ground level shows an area of bulging concrete. To me this suggests that the house has structural issues that may have sunk a prior renovation.  The realtor insists that the house is “good” but I’m wondering if it can be saved and if so what kind of time and money would it require. I put in a picture of the hole in the wall just to give an idea of what I mean.   Thanks for your time.

misschris

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 5 months ago

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bullfrog | 13 years and 5 months ago

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We’ve done plenty of renovations like this and are currently doing one just like this. Sight unseem it sounds like there is nothing left to be saved and you would be doing a full gut with all new mechanicals, electrical and structural work such as changing rotted floor joists etc. Figuring in the contractor, architect and engineer you would need to budget at least $250/sf and probably one year as the timeline (2-4 months for plans, city approvals and permits and 6-8 months of construction)

callalily | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Oh and obviously if you were to proceed, you have to get it inspected by someone who is both an engineer and a licensed home inspector. Try Heimer. They charge $900\. I wouldn’t even bother wasting my money though. I would just walk away.

callalily | 13 years and 5 months ago

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The uneven floors, missing bannisters, and bulging concrete sound as if the house has very serious structural issues — perhaps caused by termites, water damage, or a combination of the above. A missing or detached bannister can indicate uneven floors and twisted stairs. As others have said, the house will not qualify for a mortgage, so at best this is a job for a flipper who will get it for a very low amount, about $200,000 or so, in an all-cash deal. Why are you attached to this house? Any detail will be lost to a gut.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 5 months ago

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“My personal instinct is that this house might take 6mths-1 year to fix and cost up to 300,000, or even more.”   Probably longer but your budget is probably OK.  Tell whomever you are going to work with that the budget is $200-225,000.  It may even be able wo be done for that amount but not sure why there is so much structural damage.  Is the roof intact?  It sounds like it is not.  Gut it to the bare walls and start over.

wiley | 13 years and 5 months ago

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triple the amount of time you think it will take and double the amount (at a minimum)

misschris | 13 years and 5 months ago

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This would be my first attempt at home ownership and so I’m taking everything very slowly. That’s why I came here to ask questions from some experienced people, thank you all so much for your answers.  I’m wondering if anyone has taken on something like this before and if you’d be willing to share a little about cost and time.  Being so inexperienced I’m not sure if I can trust my own assessment.  This is my situation, I don’t want to pursue any further unless I have some idea that the house is salvageable.   My personal instinct is that this house might take 6mths-1 year to fix and cost up to 300,000, or even more.  If I’m totally off base on that I’m willing to consider taking it on, but if I’m correct in my idea than I’m going to move on right now without sinking any more time or money into it with an architect or inspector.  The realtor seemed to think it wasn’t that big of a job, but of course he wants to get it sold.  Does anyone have a similar experience that I could use as a rough guide?   Thanks

rh | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Ooh, it sounds like my dream home! 😉 I love “saving” houses. That being said, you need to get an inspector in there. And, repeating what everyone else just said…if this is your first home, it’s probably not a good idea. You’ll need a bit of practice before taking on a project like this. Can it be saved? Probably. But it may cost a lot less to get a fixer upper that’s in livable condition.

m926bk | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Agree with DIBS.  If you are seriously considering purchasing this place, you should commission an architect, engineer, or contractor specializing in old buildings to do a walk-through with you, write a report, and prepare a preliminary budget.  The report/budget could be as detailed or cursory as you have the money to do, at this point.

SewardWasRight | 13 years and 5 months ago

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wow. this is extremely difficult to determine just from words on a website. It sounds bad, though – really bad. And you’ve listed just the bad things that you suspect – not even the probably worse things that you won’t even know about until you have someone through to look at the place. In order to gauge the condition of the place, I would seriously consider getting a highly experienced home inspector to take a look and explain to you the risks and maybe costs involved. I am sure there are some folks on here who could lead you to some good inspectors, experienced in this type inspection.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 5 months ago

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First of all, it sounds that it’s unlikely, given the condition, that you will get a mortgage.   Secondly, is this the first house you’ve ever owned???  IF so, I strongly advise against this big of a project.  You need an architect, an engineer and a contractor to see the whole place to get any sort of idea what it will cost and how long it will take.