How to get started buying a brownstone

Hi all- My wife and I have rented in BedStuy for the past number of years and we’re finally in a position where we might be able to buy something.  Unfortunately I feel completely clueless about how this all works.  Lots of properties we’re seeing listed appear to be trashed places that developers have bought on the cheap, did a quick renovation and then selling.  Some of the properties are being shown pre-renovation with the promise that we could have input on room layout, kitchen/bathrooms/etc. My question is whether any of these people are reliable?  If we buy a house from one of these guys, how can we ensure that renovations are done in a quality manner or that our wishes are respected?  What is their incentive to do a quality job if they already have your money? Alternatively, some of the other places we’ve been looking at are being sold in pretty poor shape.  What’s the best way to get an estimate of renovation costs for that property?  I know that there are home inspectors that do their thing, but is it common practice to find an architect/contractor to go to an open house with you and give you advice as to how much it would cost to renovate? I’m not sure how to get started on this process so any advice at all is appreciated! Thanks,
Alex

alexbklyn

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 1 month ago

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noahsarc5914 | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I am both an architechtural and industrial designer and a contractor/builder.  We design and build…If you want me to accompany you at some of these properties, feel free to contact me.

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I recommend these sources from my experience: *Talk to Amzi, who knows all the neighbors and frequently hears of places before they go on the market. *Walk around and look at signs in windows. There are a ton of places supposedly for sale on every block, but I don’t think they ever make it to listings anywhere. I can walk down Decatur St. and see one or two on every block. Look closely — sometimes the signs are in windows and not easy to see. *The local realty firms specializing in Bed Stuy are: Urban View Realty on Macdonough, Stuyvesant Heights Brokerage on Stuyvesant, Flateau Realty on Decatur, and Corley Realty. We bought from Corley, and really like them. *Do searches on Trulia, etc., and check the Corcoran site to leave no stone unturned — but it would be a mistake to rely exclusively on these online resources. Good luck! Amzi, funny, yes, I will email you 🙂

alexbklyn | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks everyone for the great advice!  I think our concerns about the flippers seem warranted.  It’s sad to see so many houses gutted and replaced with shoddy interiors  🙁   So, the next question – we know that BedStuy has traditionally been served by local realtors, anyone have good recommendations?

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Amzi does have amazing knowledge of Bed Stuy and frequently hears of places for sale before they go on the market. Plus he’s a lovely and amazing and fun person to hang out with!

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Ideally, in the best of all possible worlds, we’d all buy a place pre-renovated and renovate it exactly to our own specifications. In the real world, that can only happen if you have cash set aside or take out a 203K loan. It also helps not to have a job so you have plenty of time to supervise 🙂 So it depends on your financial situation. Usually first time buyers do not have great wads of cash sitting around — unless, of course, you have some other source of income. If you are short of cash, you may want to go for move-in condition. This has nothing to do with appearances but only whether the plumbing, electrical, roof, windows, and so on are working. The ideal properties in Bed Stuy are hard to find but are ones that have been in the hands of families for a while and renovated by them — people like yourself, not flippers. They exist. You should be able to find something like this even with details for in the 500s. As for renovating, figure $100,000 to $300,000 — the lower end would be just an electrical and plumbing upgrade with some skimcoating and other work; the latter would include all that plus new kitchens and baths, maybe even stripping of wood work. As for paying a flipper to customize a place for you, I also looked into this a bit but didn’t feel comfortable with it. Maybe there are some who are honest and would do their thing and just use the kitchen cabinets you prefer, but I don’t care for the flipper model in the first place because they replace the plaster with sheetrock and remove all the trim. The one fellow I know who did this, a frequent commenter on this site, ended up in a lengthy and expensive court battle because, as you say, they have no incentive to deliver once they have your money/contract/promise. (I believe he won.)

bpie | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Personally I would stay away from brownstones that have been renovated by investors.  If you see one that needs a lot of work, ask your contractor to go with you.  I’ve seen some crappy jobs done by some investors who snap up properties and then do marginal renovations.  Even if they want to do the renovations for you, they are getting paid to do that.  Their money has to come from somewhere.  Cut out the middleman.

AmziHill | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I have a background in architecture and I often go with friends to openhouses here in Bedford Stuyvesant and Crown Heights and tell them what I think.  Ususally after closing I will get the design job.  I think I know Bedford Stuyvesant real estate better than most and I have to tell you to stay away from developers who put Fedders houses inside brownstone… I would buy a house with some kind of charm and reno the place…  Feel free to e-mail me if you need any help in Bedford Stuyvesant savebedstuy@gmail.com

catboot | 13 years and 1 month ago

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We were in a similar position not long ago. After looking at a bunch of houses, the renovated ones in our price range were pretty abysmal (painted over peeling paint, bathrooms added into kitchens, and a general sense that the work was being held together by velcro, elmer’s glue and hairpins). We ended up finding a place we loved and that was livable in its current condition, yet mostly un-renovated. We’re doing the bulk of the cosmetic work ourselves, bringing in contractors for the things we know better to leave to the pros (electric, plumbing, etc). Our engineer pointed out what needed fixing right away, which was also fairly obvious (look no hot water!) This approach requires us to put up with some inconveniences for an undetermined period of time, but it also means we can make our house into what we want. Having been through a DIY reno before, this approach workes for us. However, it’s not for the faint of heart.

slopegirl | 13 years and 1 month ago

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we bought a semi-fixer upper without an architect or contractor. our engineer was able to tell us what needed to be done immediately (stairs, chimney), and the rest we did ourselves (removing carpet, linoleum, fake wood paneling, adding doors) or are waiting for a larger reno in a couple years time. we looked for two years before we found a place, so these buildings do exist but they are few and far between.   at one point we considered a “developers will do it to your specs” apartment which might work for some but I realized would not work for me. If I’m renovating a place, bones are as important as the finishes and I didn’t trust the developer on either front.

jparnass | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Hi Alex, You are definitely best off buying something that is either renovated to a degree that you like, or going to the opposite end of the spectrum and tackling a fixer-upper.  In the other scenarios, you are essentially paying for someone else’s vision of what your home should be, and you will have very little control of the outcome.   As far as estimating, an architect or contractor is definitely going to be your best bet to establish a scope of work and a baseline budget.  As an architect, I would always recommend using a professional who can not only identify repair work but also use their vision to help look beyond the problems to create a custom solution for you and your family.   There are plenty of reputable architects on the forum who will be happy to give you some guidance.  If you are interested I would be happy to discuss your goals and arrange for a walkthrough when you’ve found something you’re ready to put an offer on.