Heating / AC for tenants

Hi, we are doing a complete gut renovation of a 3 family brick building in Brooklyn. There are two rental units upstairs, and I can’t decide on the type of heating system to use for the tenants (combined AC/heat, baseboard heat, radiant heat) and also whether or not we should even install some form of central AC for the tenants (we are doing it for ourselves). Any suggestions on cost/ benefit, and any suggestions on types of systems to use would be greatly appreciated.

sverkat

in Brownstoner Renovation 12 years and 4 months ago

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brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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The above post has missed the important fact that the recommendation was for hydronic zoned, not steam heat. There might be a faint gurgle whena zone starts up, but there is no noise, cause no floor damage, no shaking, and can’t burn children. Depending on th etemperature set on the boiler, a fully as hot as it gets radiator is wuite warm, and you probbaly wouldn’t want to keep your hand on it for long, but no, you or a child won’t get burned. The reason the vast majority of apartments are not cast iron is that it is way to expensive to purcahse new. That doen’t mean it isn’t superior to forced air or “SlanFins”.

Snezan | 12 years and 4 months ago

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In this low vacancy market, almost no renter can base their decision on renting an apartment whether or not it has cast iron radiators.  Also cast iron radiators leak, they can cause floor damage, they are loud, they shake, they can burn small children.  There is a clear reason why the vast majority of apartments in the US are not cast iron. If you do get a radiator cover…  Make the cost calculation and see if submetering pays off. You can usually get away with charging the same rent as an apartment with heat included as many tenants value the ability to control their own heat. It’s a tossup and depends how gentrified your neighborhood is. Central Air is worth another $50 to $75 a month in rent to tenants. I would also add a washer dryer and you can comfortably charge at the very upper maximum of market rent and you will be compared to luxury buildings versus old brownstones.

brokelin | 12 years and 4 months ago

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Go with salvaged larger cast iron radiators, not baseboard.  As a sometimes renter and sometimes coop owner, I won’t even consider living in a place with out radiator heat.  (I had forced hot air once when living outside of NYC in grad school, which I had not experienced since growing up, and even though I could control my heat for the first (and only) time in my adult life (and heat was included in my rent), I still hated the way it felt.)  Radiators do look old-fashioned, that’s their charm – they go perfectly well with old homes.  They are lovely, especially if you spend the money you save getting salvaged ones on having them dip stripped so they don’t have layers of paint on them. Then have them painted with an appropriate bronze color metallic radiator paint, and you’ve made a substantial improvement to the aesthitics of the property.  Plus, radiator heat feels best.  Baseboard ones are not nice – they take up room where you want furniture (more floor space than taller radiators) and aren’t as good looking.  You’ll have to figure out whether you’ll pay for heat – I’d go with the norm around here, which is radiator heat with the oil or gas bill paid by the landlord.  When most apartments include heat, you do yourself a disservice in finding tenants by setting it up so tenants have to pay for heat – I’d pass the place by on that alone. Now, as to your question, which was AC – having AC will definintely appeal to tenants, even if they are paying the electric bill, as AC is a necessity.  There’s no need to combine it with heat, though.  Your options change when you don’t combine it, I think.  I’ve even seen really high end renovations with thru-the wall AC units under the windows, next to the radiators.  When enclosed in wood covers (like radiator covers, only they open in the front when you want a blast of cold air, and so you can reach the controls, they look great.  This saves the wear and tear on the windows, and the having to take them in and out of the windows and having to have place to store them (I hate having AC units in my windows in the wintertimes).  That may or may not work well with the exterior look of your building.  So, go with smaller internal AC units, or central air throughout the rentals – if you are putting them in your place, then why not install them in the rentals?  You WILL be able to charge more for a place where AC is provided and is not in or under the windows, I promise.

brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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Meant to say cast iron baseboard is available. Comes in ends, 2s, 4s and 6s. They press together, but nowadays most guys don’t have the tool. Looks like a post hole digger.

brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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Cast iron holds heat better than slantfin style. Cast iron is available but expensive. This is Brownstoner, what’s wrong with old fashion? If you scavenge, you should be able to come up with $5,000 worth of radiators for $500.00.

sverkat | 12 years and 4 months ago

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Thank you, BruceF. Why cast iron radiators, vs. baseboard? They look so old-fashioned if they are free-standing, and if they are recessed – doesn’t that require making a hole in the wall ?

brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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Air conditioning is a higher maintenance situation. You have to choose if the installation and removal of window units by tenants who may or may not know what they are doing is more of a headache than the expense of installing mini-splits for them. I personally don’t like he wear and tear on windows, so I bite the bullet and cough up the cash, and they are pricey little things.

brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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While I went back to fix some typos I lost my session.   What I started to say was, that you can plumb each unit as separate zones with home runs to the cellar. Should you at a future date decide to install additional boilers, the hard part would be done. We recommend cast iron radiators, which were not listed in your choices.

brucef | 12 years and 4 months ago

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On the heating side, at this time your required investment for separate, legal heating boilers for each unit far exceeds the dollars you are hoping to put off onto yur tenants. Tenants aren’t oblivious, and your plan to raise their expenses by making them pay for heat will be viewed as additional rent. The economics at present may not always be in place, although the natural gas abundance does seem likely to last for some time.  Because you sre gut renovating, one of the most expensive aspects of retro-fitting individual heting