estimate for brownstone renovation

I am very new to this so I would appreciate any comments and opinions.  So here goes… I have my eye on this gorgeous brownstone and went to see it today with a reputable contractor to give me an idea of the costs.  The house looks in good condition (on the outside), roof is ok, inside needs all the work.  Surprise, of course it was about 100K more than we can afford.  His estimate of $250 K would include : new wiring (not particularly urgent but as in all old houses the wires are made of cloth and a fire hazard), stripping floors and walls and removing layers of linoleum, putting new kitchen on parlor, cleaning up rental on bottom (same with floors, walls etc), putting in 2 new bathrooms, lowering a ceiling, etc.  In all, three floors, most work on parlor and upper floor.  The house has a lot of detail with original moldings that we would like to keep obviously and hence the cost.  He also mentioned that the old gas heater and boiler were old and not very energy efficient. I think the estimate is probably about right.  Any comments?

ajeb

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 5 months ago

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callalily | 13 years and 5 months ago

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OP, do not believe the contractor who says an electrical upgrade will cost more if you want to keep the original moldings. That is utter hogwash. You just put the wires through at the bottom of the wall instead of the top. We had three stories and basement rewired completely to code, very quickly, for $15,000 in Nov 2009 by WCK Electric and they didn’t damage one bit of plaster, not even a medallion. I highly recommend them. Many contractors like to do “gut renovations” because they make money charging you for unnecessary work such as replacing high-quality materials with inferior ones. With the scope of work and budget you describe, you will definitely benefit from working with an architect. I recently saw a beautiful home in Bed Stuy owned by a Brownstoner poster who did exactly what you are describing. Your scope of work and budget are comparable.  The architect was John Hatheway /718-855-441\.  Two other friends of mine with beautiful houses in Bed Stuy recommend  Rauel Agrippa at 305-494-2539 for plaster work. He’s skilled and his prices are good. I plan him to use him myself soon. Plan to include skim coating in your estimates. (Panels do not increase plaster repair costs either — this contractor sounds unreliable.) It’s not difficult to remove a dropped ceiling. The demo is easy. Fixing the messed up, cracked ceiling is what will cost. If there are wires or plumbing that must be moved, that will of course cost. Re stripping the woodwork, I recommend you do it in place. Removing it breaks the wood work, as I just discovered during our current renovation. It’s quite expensive or sometimes homeowners like to do it themselves. (I recently tried Soy Gel and it is easier to use than Peel Away.) A carpenter with a truck can take the doors to Dip N Strip in NJ; they are great and won’t turn your woodwork to mush. Good luck.

dancingirl | 13 years and 5 months ago

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His name is Bob Ryan, Kayar Electric. 718-965-2882 But I think he is retired now.

Silvermax | 13 years and 5 months ago

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consider upgrading the boiler — you’ll earn the money back in a couple of years in heat savings.

elm_bk | 13 years and 5 months ago

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dancingirl can you post the name/contact info for your electrician?  thanks!

agdipierro

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 5 months ago

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Whatever number a contractor gives you at this point, add at least 25%. Ed Kopel Architects

ajeb | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Thanks everyone for your comments. The way the contractor explained to me about the re-wiring, it is not just updating the electicals (which has been done), but a complete replacement of the old electric wires.  Therefore he needs to open every wall and ceiling.  If you want to keep original moldings it becomes much more complex and time consuming…The walls are not in good condition at all (lots of cracks and panels in some rooms).  And of course I meant getting rid of a lowered ceiling instead of lowering a ceiling…Also, I meant stripping the doors and other woodwork.

callalily | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Eman, do you have a rough ballpark figure or range for replacing an entire heating system (hot water with radiators, but leaving out the boiler)? Maybe $30,000 to $50,000? (Just a wild guess.)

callalily | 13 years and 5 months ago

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Sounds reasonable. Keeping the detail will not cost extra. Are the plaster walls in good condition and ready to be painted or do they need skim coating? Skim coating need not be expensive but be sure the workers use mesh over every surface (supply the mesh and watch them) to be sure the cracks do not return in three to six months. Here are some rough ballpark figures: 15K whole house electric upgrade three floors plus basement by licensed electrician to code $1.50/sq foot sealing, staining, refinishing floors — linoleum removal is free, and in our house they removed paint as well but there wasn’t very much paint $350 clem box rental + $400 four guys to carry everything out to the trash in a few hours one day (such as the linoleum you are removing) $15-80K new kitchen If you are moving the kitchen, you will in addition need to pay an architect, architect filing fees, permit fees, time waiting for permits, plus plumbing to move kitchen — I don’t know what these costs are — plumbing along could run $10K $10 K per bathroom Lowering a ceilng? Never heard of anyone doing that. Stripping walls? Never heard of that either. Do you mean stripping molding or doors?

bullfrog | 13 years and 5 months ago

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sounds about right

eman134 | 13 years and 5 months ago

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sounds realistic as long as you are not going for super high end fixtures and finishes, and leaving the existing heating plant in place, not going for high effficiency modcon boiler and total replumbing of heating