Do I need to get support for an external wall somehow?
Hi, Had a complicated question and I’m coming to experts on Brownstoner for help (especially brucef, whom I have become a big fan of). I recently purchased a 4-story 100+ year old brownstone in South Brooklyn. The townhouse WAS part of rowhouses going for almost a full block. However in 1950, the house on the east side of my home was demolished, so now there is no structure on that side of the home (if I drill through my East wall, I’d hit air). I figure every old house goes through settling, but I noticed something that had me concerned enough to ask you guys: The windows in the front of the house seem crooked (and we have trouble closing a few) and there are some hairline cracks along interior walls (seemingly cosmetic?). I’m definitely a worrier, but my fear is a situation like 241 Carroll Street, which collapsed (2012 or so?) seemingly from a similar structural setup: was a rowhouse, the eastern wall was demolished to make way for a school, eventually that eastern wall gave out and the building collapsed. Am I crazy to worry? How do I check it out? From reading brucef’s comments, if I want to get the situation checked out, I should avoid a structural engineer and go straight to an architect or masonry contractor, however I don’t know any good ones. If anyone can recommend a solution (either real or psychological if i’m being overly paranoid) or just someone qualified that they really trust to examine/potentially fix the problem if there is one, that would be super helpful. Thanks in advance!
mumphry
in Brownstoner Renovation 10 years and 5 months ago
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10 replies
resident2 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Yes, I agree most structural engineers come up with plans that would support a bomb shelter, but the point is that you do need to know if your side wall and foundation was properly sealed and supported from when the building next door was demolished. Often demolition companies just back fill loosely the old cellar and over time with the exposure to more moisture than the foundation wall was expected to be exposed to it deteriorates, and the whole house very slowly starts leaning that way, hence the window frames and door ways coming out of alignment. Depending on the geology of where your houses is, it could move more slowly than other locations; built on hard rock at a high elevation it will not move as fast a building built closer to waterways etc.
brucef | 10 years and 5 months ago
In answer to your actual questions, you asked about cement “parching” on the exterior masonry. This cement does protect the pointing to some degree, and the outside faces of the party wall brick was never meant to be exposed (they used higher quality “face” brick for the front and rear of houses) Typically it last for some time, but may need to be redone. When I asked about the vacant lot next door, I was trying to determine if the footing under the wall was exposed or buried. I’ll assume that there is a cellar below your house, and that typically they used some larger stone under the first course of brick. This is where you might be vulnerable, but more likely that footing is buried a number of feet below the rubble/soil in the vacant lot. Were someone to dig out a building next door to you, at that time you would need to be concerned that they would damage your structure. As a reference, I would get a 4′ or 6′ level, and measure how many inches from plumb the exterior wall is. Mark carefully where you take your measurements, so that after some time has passed, you can compare the results. Same deflection, no movement. Enjoy your home.
brucef | 10 years and 5 months ago
Well thanks for the vote of confidence. I can recommend Jabus masonry. Ask for Jimmy Buscarella. He has a can-do attitude that is refreshing. You can say Bruce recommended him. If there is no noticeable movement, as in since you purchased, whatever happened may very likely of happened some time ago. Is there fill in the lot next door, or is there a hole where the previous house’s basement was? I really don’t mean to say structural engineers are dishonest or even un-informed. My greatest beefs are their proposed solutions that are overly elaborate, many times designed to either gratify their ego (as in look how damned smart I am), or super-cautious, designed to make absolutely sure that their precious license is never questioned. When you’re spending other people’s money, the sky’s the limit. What I run into is the architect who says, “I am the idea guy, all great ideas start here”. While in the past the architect would design the structural solution, now they insist that you have to get a structural engineer – more fees, more approvals, more ironwork, more… money and delays.
snowman2 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Everlast Contracting is not an engineer. He is a contractor with a very uneven skillset and record. Off topic, if you’ve seen some nice brownstone refacings with his sign out front, his contribution is his English language and marketing `skills that he provides for the actual masonry contractors doing the work.
steam_man | 10 years and 5 months ago
Do a google search for structural engineers. And as a contractor with an engineering degree I can tell you, it’s not the competent/honest engineer you should be concerned about it’s the competent/honest contractor. Engineers actually have a code of ethics, of course not all of them take that seriously, but most do.
Arkady | 10 years and 5 months ago
A friend of mine used EverLast Contracting in Gowanus for the same problem.
mumphry | 10 years and 5 months ago
Can you recommend a competent/honest structural engineer that you have used or know of? Preferably one that has experience with brownstones like this. Thanks in advance!
resident2 | 10 years and 5 months ago
Brownstones were typically built by developers of the day in batches of 3-4 whatever. If any one of them is demolished it will effect the structural integrity of the adjoining structure/s. Depending on who demolished the structure next door and how they compensated for the lose of support on one side, you may very well have a structural problem. Which is why I have always staid away from buying buildings where this is the case; they are generally cheaper and this is exactly for this reason, they often have structural problems. Who owns the lot next door? Get a structural engineer to look at it and if they deduce that the party wall was not properly supported during the demolition you will need an Attorney. The house on Carroll St that fell down was more due to the side being excavated to make way for the basement driveway and not making enough effort to re-support the side foundation of the house.
mumphry | 10 years and 5 months ago
Ok- so I checked a few things and consulted a work colleague who also lives in a brownstone and they had this to say: Apparently the cold can make windows tough to close due to the house shrinking/expanding from temperature. And the somewhat crooked windows have always been that way- they haven’t gotten worse while we have lived there. And this: On the East and West wall, apparently the brick was coated with a thick layer of concrete- Is that typically strong enough?
Arkady | 10 years and 5 months ago
Whatever you do, get on it right away.