Design-Build Companies vs. separate architect/contractor?
We are in contract on a brownstone in PS that needs quite a bit of renovations. What’s the difference between a design-build company (i.e. Excel or perfect Renovation) and using a separate architect/ contractor? Are the latter more cost effective? Any advice appreciated!
psrookie
in Brownstoner Renovation 12 years and 6 months ago
9
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9 replies
jaystreet | 10 years and 4 months ago
I own a Design/Build firm. We take then project from conception to completion. This business model keeps the costs under control. We hire the architect and designer [if necessary]. We also engage sub-contractors as needed. We are the advocates for the client. I have been doing this work in NYC for over 25 years. I know what things cost and how to do the work. Yes megan there are often unforeseen conditions. It is the nature of the work. Change orders are fair to both the client and our firm as well. One thing we always have to push back on is the incidents of price gouging. This takes a lot of work.
m926bk | 12 years and 6 months ago
My advice is to start by hiring an architect that has both a design sensibility that you like as well as experience with seeing projects like yours through bidding, filing and construction. Most architects, as tododesign says, have a handleful of contractors/construction managers they have a good working relationship with but are open to bidding to ones that clients suggest (that, say, did a great job with their neighbor’s or friend’s house). Competive bidding to multiple contractors, as well as architect’s review and approval of any change orders, should keep the numbers in line. My understanding of “design-build” is that it can result in savings for the client because of the efficiency of designers and builders working hand-in-hand throughout the process, but what does the client do when the “build” half of the team opens up a wall to a surprise and wants to change-order the client for thousands of dollars? In those situations (and they always come up during renovations!), the architect is your advocate.
ExcelBuildsNYC | 12 years and 6 months ago
Just to clarify, Excel isn’t exclusively a design/build company. A large percentage of our work is straight competitive bid and we also work on a construction management basis, as well as a hybrid approach and of course, design/build. Each approach has its advantages and I think it’s worth exploring your options so that you can weigh the benefits of each and choose what suits your needs and vision. What we have found works best is whatever works best for a particular customer and project. I highly recommend, if you haven’t done so already, getting an impression budget for your project from a qualified contractor so that you have some idea of what you are getting into. We offer this as a free, no obligation service that we can do before or while you are in contract as well as after closing. Depending on the project cost and your budget, I recommend getting the impression budget broken down into items that you must do and a priorized list of the items that you want to do as a way of managing your budget. If you would like to discuss the advantages of the various approaches or would like an impression budget, please contact us at (646) 294-6475 and ask for Matthew Goldfine. You can view us online at www.excelbuilds.com.
tododesign | 12 years and 6 months ago
We are architects and have on many occasions considered becoming a design-build firm but we find that the client is better served by getting multiple bids (min 3 sometimes 8 separate contractors). We often recommend contractors we have worked with but are always open to finding new ones especially if recommended by our clients. If you are interested in going this route, we would love to help you out. We are currently working on a landmarked townhouse in the Bronx and will be bidding to 8 contractors. We have extensive experience in residential architecture. Check our work at www.tododesign.com or call Silva at 917.622.2462\. All the best.
bkmatthew | 12 years and 6 months ago
My experience with a major commercial construction job in NYC leads me to recommend the following: 1) Decide what your budget is, and reduce it by a quarter. 2) Have a preliminary discussion with your real estate lawyer, and decide which parties to avoid, which to approach. 3) Talk to a few design companies and decide which one you like. 4) Talk to a few project managers, hire the one you like. 5) Based on recommendations from designer and project manager, have a selective bid process for the project. The project manager is very important for keeping the project on time, on budget, on plan and to code. There are lots of niggly, crappy nuances to NYC’s building code, and it’s the job of the project manager to know when a designer or construction contractor is spoon feeding you b/s. The project manager will review all the change orders with you and may even haggle a few of them down. On our $3million plus project the project management firm was worth its weight in gold.
trudylou | 12 years and 6 months ago
We’ve done both and had far better success with an architect who was clearly working for us. Our Kitchen project was a disaster with a design build firm – we felt like they were constantly trying to fleece us. They quoted $5000 extra for plumbing work that Vigilante came and did same day for $500\. We tried negotiating a bathroom renovation with a design build firm but they would not break out costs for the various pieces which left us really uncomfortable. Based on our limited experience, I would use an architect. You have far more control and transparency in the process.
greenmountain | 12 years and 6 months ago
I understand architects are advocates for the client. On the other hand, architects recommend, influence and sometimes select a client’s contractor. If an architect were to tell their preferred contractor what to bid on a job, especially after other bids are received, that would also be a conflict. I don’t know where legal lines are crossed, and I am not accusing any particular architect. Conflicts can occur in any of the triangular relationships (client, contractor and architect) Nothing is stopping clients from selecting contractors independently. Contractors can also recommend architects with whom they prefer to collaborate. There are lots of qualified and available architects; honest, reasonable, creative people who will file DOB plans with the help of experienced expeditors. Skilled tradespeople are in higher demand. Consider also how you will evaluate your contractor bids: Those who actually pay NYS-required workers’ compensation insurance (now about 20% of payroll) and payroll taxes (also about 20%) pay about 40% more for labor than contractors who do not follow the law.
ellenlourie | 12 years and 6 months ago
Court decision in Charlebois v. J.M. Weller Associates, 72 N.Y.2d 587 states, that design build is allowed, in case : contract that specifically states that design services will be performed by a particular identified and licensed design professional under an express contract between the design-builder and its designer. Further, the designer’s compensation, as paid to and through the design-builder, will be separately itemized in all payment application to the owner, so that there can be no concern about assertions of improper fee sharing by the designer.
jockdeboeraia | 12 years and 6 months ago
DB is not legal in NYS. The architect is separate from the contractor.