Basement Ceiling - exposed joists

Hi All,

I’m currently in the process of removing our basement’s ancient, crumbling plaster ceiling as step one of making the space usable.  

My intention is to leave the joists exposed, filling the spaces in between with drywall for a modicum of soundproofing and (hopefully) dust control.  I have noticed, however, that there are braces (an “x” shape formed by two pieces of 2 x 4) between each joist that more or less are affixed at the top of each joist. 

I understand these braces are there for a reason, but in pictures I’ve seen on this and other sites, exposed joist ceilings with drywall in between never seems to show them. Were they removed? Is that foolish? Crazy, even? 

I imagine that I can remove each one temporarily, affix the drywall, then re-attach them… but only if I have to! Has anyone else taken on a project like this–or is an engineer who could offer me some sage advice?

Thanks in advance for any help!

seriousasaheartattack

in Brownstoner Renovation 13 years and 8 months ago

10

Please log in, in order to post replies!

10 replies

Newest Oldest

seriousasaheartattack | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5124 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4876 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176803"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$ByoSu2gIcGlHWGWNZuidHpcbcozIS8/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "pgcsherman@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(36) "/forums/users/seriousasaheartattack/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2013-06-24 16:58:07"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176803)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

b.o.d: won’t solve it whatsoever? I’m the furthest thing from a structural or acoustic engineer, but I would think that filling in the area where sound (I’m not talking footfall sound, but voices, television, etc.) leaks through would reduce the noise at least a little. 

xistent: at your neighbor’s, how noisy is it with everything exposed?

mopar: our basement is actually as dry as a bone. I suppose we owe that to the work the previous owner did when finishing the basement (back in the 60’s it appears, from the decor).  That said, I’m planning on using green board.

xistent | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5123 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5122 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "157032"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BRLbZyzAMxkdkyDyHSTHkPT60a1PK90"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(14) "xistent@me.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/xistent/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:16:50"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(157032)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

we too are considering the same issues…… our beams are being cleaned and sanded as I write. Torn between leaving ALL the wood exposed or putting sheetrock (not on joists) between beams. This consideration mainly for the potential for dust. I have a neighbor with same set up and they have all exposed beams and wood w/o sheetrock and no problems whatsoever with dust. Torn on best approach considering both practical & aesthetic factors. If we left the wood totally exposed w/o sheetrock would it be possible to caulk the cracks to prevent dust?

bowl-of-dicks | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4876 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5121 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "12647"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "bowl-of-dicks"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(17) "bowl-of-dicks-2-2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(15) "cf80q@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(28) "/forums/users/bowl_of_dicks/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:42"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "bowl of dicks"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(12647)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Perhaps you already know this, but sheetrocking between joists – leaving the underside of each joist exposed – is not going to solve your noise from above problem whatsoever. Adding a ceiling in for noise reduction would require suspending it below the joists (what you don’t have clearance for)

callalily | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5124 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5125 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "56059"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "callalily"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "callalily"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(26) "moparbrownstoner@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(20) "/forums/users/mopar/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:38:12"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "callalily"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(56059)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

You’d be better off skim coating over the plaster than replacing with drywall. Plaster cannot mold, whereas drywall will. Unless your basement is unusually dry, in which case drywall will be fine.

seriousasaheartattack | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5123 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5126 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176803"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$ByoSu2gIcGlHWGWNZuidHpcbcozIS8/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "pgcsherman@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(36) "/forums/users/seriousasaheartattack/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2013-06-24 16:58:07"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176803)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

xistent: it’s not the joists that I want to cover–it’s simply the space between the joists. Our garden level floor is the old pine plank subfloor, so without some sort of barrier in between, the noise is a HUGE problem and the dust will definitely be a problem, as there are several small openings. I’m planning to use quietrock and green glue to help with soundproofing.  Plus, next year’s project will probably be to put new flooring on the garden level. Should’ve done it before we moved in. Live and learn.

Goatcrapp | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4876 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5127 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "108904"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "Goatcrapp"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BBIwBZIbwf8MzD0m6gSVz3ZtnIqVUW0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "goatcrapp"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "goatcrapp@aol.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/goatcrapp/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:33:02"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "Goatcrapp"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(108904)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I wish I had 6 feet of overhead in my cellar…  In my case i removed the crumbling plaster cieling (about 1″ total) simply becuase a>  it was crumbling, and b> that inch made the difference between me hitting my head, or not.  Another option without lowering the height so much is fiberglass insulation, and wainscot paneling…  1/8″ and if  you get decent quality that’ll hold a stain, it can look very nice.. I’ve done this on a wraparound porch for my mother, and it looked great.

xistent | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5126 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5124 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "157032"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BRLbZyzAMxkdkyDyHSTHkPT60a1PK90"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(14) "xistent@me.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(22) "/forums/users/xistent/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:16:50"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(7) "xistent"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(157032)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

we are in the process of the same type of renovation and seeing the exposed makes a huge difference visually from our perspective. all of our electrical and plumbing will be hidden, but other than that we planed to have the joists exposed. do you really think the dirt and dust will be a problem if they are left un covered after sanding and cleaning?

seriousasaheartattack | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5123 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5128 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "176803"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$ByoSu2gIcGlHWGWNZuidHpcbcozIS8/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "pgcsherman@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(36) "/forums/users/seriousasaheartattack/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2013-06-24 16:58:07"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(21) "seriousasaheartattack"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(176803)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

elbow: Yes, ceiling height (or the illusion thereof) is the goal. The basement was “finished” by the previous owner but they didn’t dig down, so the height to the (now departed) plaster ceiling was about 6 and a half feet.  Having read about the perils and expense of digging down to add ceiling height, I’m definitely taking the poor man’s approach.  

Fortunately, there isn’t much in the way of plumbing, etc.  The main heat pipe runs the length of the room (suspended from the joists), which is a pain in the ass, but something we are resigned to living with. The gas and water pipes are all set up either behind–or along the edge of–the current wood paneled walls.

The thing is, if I can’t install the drywall between the joists, there will be a major sound issue–not to mention dirt and dust.  I could, in the end, put a sheetrock ceiling up (the plaster one needed to go regardless), but even with the fact that these are joists and not beams, it does feel like a higher ceiling to me.

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions–and the link to the thread was helpful. Seems like there are a few schools of thought on these things.

elbow | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5124 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4876 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "177161"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "elbow"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BKnX8zyZxQQrEZb8oVvlJQppBrN3dO0"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "elbow"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(17) "leeb155@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(20) "/forums/users/elbow/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:26:00"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "elbow"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(177161)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The cross bridging was installed for lateral stability.  Theoretically it helps distribute loads and prevent bouncy floors on the floor above.  And I’d always heard that the bridging was supposed to ensure lateral stability of the joists so that center to center would be consistent on the run.  Here’s some carpenters and home inspectors weighing in on the subject.   http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2911

From an architectural perpsective, keep in mind that you’ll be exposing joists and not beams, so there’s likely to be a fairly close center to center to center spacing that may not provide much of a sense of increased ceiling height, if that’s what you’re going for.  Have you completed the ceiling demo?  Did you find plumbing or wiring in the ceiling?   Our place is a maze of hot, cold and steam piping with some snaky conduit thrown in.   Ive successfully masked this with lighting an paint in commercial builidngs with more head room, but that stuff is apt to be quite visibly in the typical lower floor of a ny town house.

jameskoster | 13 years and 8 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5128 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5126 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "52369"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "jameskoster"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BM0La06PQWl7vM8NZl7wpsLNbYH3Md."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "jameskoster"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "jkoster@jkosterarch.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(26) "http://www.jkosterarch.com"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:38:03"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "jameskoster"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(52369)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

X-bracing is used to prevent the joists from twisting under load.  If the X-braces were necessary when the building was built, removing them will allow significant deflection of the floor above and possibly even collapse. When you have seen exposed joist structures without X-bracing, it means that the joists were massive enough to resist the twist or the loads weren’t sufficient to warrant X-bracing.  Bottom line: you can’t remove the X-bracing (even temporarily) unless you have something else in place to lock the bottom of the joists in place — otherwise, loss of life and property may result!

Good Luck!