Ballparking renovation costs
I know this is a near impossible question, but my wife and I are looking at buying a small (under 2,500 sq. ft., including the basement level) late 19th century townhouse in Cobble Hill and want to ballpark the cost of an extensive renovation. The house is a small brick townhouse set in among a row of brownstones. There are two floors plus a finished basement, currently configured as a 2-family, with the top floor being one unit, and the entry level and basement being the second unit. We would want to keep it as a 2-family, but flip it so that the basement level is one unit, and the entry and top levels are one unit. This, of course, means, among other things, removing the kitchen from the top level and installing a kitchen on the basement level. We also know that the roof and A/C will need to be replaced. (For some reason, there currently is central A/C on the entry and basement levels, but not the top floor.) I’m sure we’ll want to replace all of the floors as well. To the extent one can tell these things by just looking, the structure itself appears to be in good shape. Any way to ballpark the cost of this? We’d be looking to do this relatively (but not over the top) high end.
blumie
in Brownstoner Renovation 10 years and 11 months ago
9
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9 replies
jill11222 | 10 years and 11 months ago
Having recently been through this you should expect to spend around 500-550k. I went in thinking we would spend 300k (100k per floor) and that didn’t come close. We didn’t have any huge surprises but things come up or cost more than you thought. We also downgraded a lot along the way, no subzero, no fancy built-ins, etc. It just happens. Even with a great architect and contractor. Good luck!
curated | 10 years and 11 months ago
When all is said and done, including all soft costs, figure at least $250-300/sf. http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/curated
bshah | 10 years and 11 months ago
You could use a ballpark number of $150/sf for a partial mid-range renovation that will include upgrading kitchens and bathrooms, repairing skylights & stairs, refinishing floors, new partitions, painting & finishes etc. There are always some unanticipated costs that should be included in your budget for such old houses. I am an architectural designer and have designed many renovations for brownstones & townhouses in the city. Have been successfully able to limit the costs to the ballpark figure mentioned above. You can see some of my work and get an idea of what is possible http://openstudio.us.com/ Feel free to contact me and I would be happy to help. Good Luck!
brucef | 10 years and 11 months ago
$400k WILL NOT GIVE YOU PLENTY OF LEEWAY. They had a show on NPR a while back discussing how cute human infants are. This was theorized as NOT being chance or conditioning, but a definite evolutionary marker. I guess what they were trying to say was the following – if infants looked or acted like teenagers, parents wouldn’t take care of them. What has this drivel got to do with brownstones? I’ll try to make this a simple as I can (regardless of hopeful architects’ sweet-talk) The DOB is Alice through the Looking Glass land. They are capricious, timid, and evil. Everything you want to do is forbidden. Every unwanted expense and complication is mandatory. Your very understandable plans contain “triggers” that force compliance with onerous code issues. Resident2 is on the right track. The recommendation to find an old code architect or engineer is spot on. One who knows right now what DOB is approving (and that is dramatically different from what the statute reads) I’m talking about someone who can tell you what is possible and you’ll listen, not figure that you know better. I could do your job, probably pretty much what you are looking for, but it would take me two years, and I’d have to do a lot of the work myself. And I would sneak in under 400K, but I have many years of experience and technical skills. Unless that describes you, you’ll have to pay much more to get your wish list, or even better is scale down your scope.
cate | 10 years and 11 months ago
Yes, you can ballpark this. I presume the “basement” is the garden floor under the stoop and is legal to occupy. Also, originally the kitchen should have been in the back of the “basement” with a dining room in front. . You’ll need to put in a new plumbing stack and two new kitchens. Estimate maybe $13,000 for a plumbing stack going up to the roof, plus assorted costs of finishing, attaching to the roof, etc., etc. A new kitchen could be anywhere from $12,000 to $100,000 depending on size, amount of cupboards and counters, and how fancy you want to get (Ikea vs. custom cabinets, stone counters and $6,000 appliances). A new roof (to cover the old one) won’t be too much — about $6,000 or so even with new skylights etc. You will also need to file, which means delays and renting elsewhere, and use an architect, which will increase your costs. I have no experience with air conditioning but I hear estimates of $30,000 or $40,000 for a building. As for replacing (rather than refinishing) floors, not sure why you’d want to do that, unless they’re already replacements and awful. Reclaimed flooring runs about $15 a square yard but that doesn’t include installation costs. . Since you’re putting a kitchen onto the parlor floor, are you also planning a door and deck with stairs going down to the yard? . Seems like a ballpark estimate of $400,000 would you give you plenty of leeway.
resident2 | 10 years and 11 months ago
By basement; do you mean the garden floor? Is there a cellar below that? Depending on how high above grade the garden floor is, you may be able to convert the garden floor to a separate apartment. That said; the cost of reconfiguration depends on many things and cannot be “estimated” for purchasing purposes via a site like this. There are just too many variables regarding the specifics of the house in question etc. Your best bet if you want to buy an old house is to find a good local “old code” architect to work with. I say old code, because there are far too many older houses being over done by newer younger architects that only know new code, and it ends up with the heart & soul being ripped out of these houses and costs a fortune to accomplish as well as an awfully long time before you can move in. As you find potential houses; if you have an architect as part of your team on board you can just give them the address and they should be able to tell you if the garden floor can become a separate rental etc. Obviously the costs of renovations can vary greatly based on your tastes of finishes etc., does it include all new Landmarked windows? a complete new façade and landscaping the yard etc.? Working with a Townhouse buyers Broker as apposed to a (friend) condo or rental agent can help a great deal. Look for an agent that has been selling Brownstones for at least 10-15 years or more and preferably one that has bought and done a few renovations themselves.
arch007 | 10 years and 11 months ago
100k per floor someone told me, but he did a lot of work himself and it was a big apartment. 25′ wide.
Augustiner | 10 years and 11 months ago
nancyk is right (if basement means cellar and is underground). It´s not possible to throw around numbers, you don´t specify sufficient details. This is probably because you don´t know what´s ahead of you 🙂 You have to divide into: – carpentry (moving walls, structural work, floors, painting, bathroom upgrades) – electrical (are your installations new or old, are the current amps sufficient for a bigger HVAC and so on) – plumbing (are you also moving bathroom locations?) – heating (through the new HVAC or independent system?) – Facade work, deck, windows, insulation, roof deck …
nancyk | 10 years and 11 months ago
according to the nyc building code, your basement/cellar cannot be cannot be used for “living,” i.e. sleeping.