Architect fees- Rip off???
My Architect on my brownstone reno has quoted us for $110/ hr plus 60?hr for drafting fees. He and is estimating 35K for the project overall. We are making some layout changes to the ground level and adding a small extension but otherwise, all the other floors are remaining the mostly the same. Adding a small bathroom on the 4th floor and enlarging a closet. He did have start the project with creating “as is” drawing as starting point because we did not have any blueprints. But does that sound right? That sound insanely high to me. Looking for input
laurenpacker123
in Brownstoner Renovation 9 years and 8 months ago
15
Please log in, in order to post replies!
15 replies
Lurker | 9 years and 8 months ago
Don’t worry. Once you get used to cutting weekly checks of 10k it’ll feel like a breeze. And as others say, 35k for a house extension with “moving walls” (which likely means load bearing ones) and added bath costs money. The comments about engineering and expediting, as well as special inspections are especially important. The latter includes energy use, structural, welding, concrete, fire safety, yada yada. Each inspection costs a chunk of change, or you hire a firm to do them all for a bundle. (Oh and my pet peeve, asbestos, don’t forget asbestos! Every surface you intend to work on needs to be tested, to the tune of a grand or two, and that doesn’t touch abatement).
newtomehouse | 9 years and 8 months ago
35k is not unreasonable for architectural but it sounds like your architect has not included or made you aware of all the other soft costs that you may incur such as structural, mechanical, expediting, filing fees, special inspections etc. Carmen outlined some of these but there should be no reason that you shouldn’t be able to get an accurate ballpark of everything you’ll need before starting. The design/build firm we used gave us an estimate of 85k for all soft costs that we would incur during our renovation and they detailed each item for us (architectural, design, expediting, structural, boring, special inspections etc). The final number ended up being just over 83k so they were pretty spot on. There should be no reason why you can’t get a fairly accurate estimate of all these costs before you start so that you know what lays ahead and can budget accordingly.
carmenf | 9 years and 8 months ago
Oh yeah don’t forget the structural engineer as someone has mentioned, and build in having to redraw your plans at least once when the DOB rejects them.
resident2 | 9 years and 8 months ago
If you are already thinking people are ripping you off, I would hold off if I was you. Because this is the kind of business where at every step it can feel like you are being ripped off, jerked off, whatever if you do not know what you are doing and what is involved. Consult a few architects, preferably that have come with a personal referral and listen to them, make sure that you are comparing “quotes” as apples to apples etc. what is needed, what is included etc. But if this is your first project, make sure that you get very detailed construction drawings (they will cost extra) so that when you are getting quotes from contractors, they are bidding from the same plans, not what they customarily do. All workers “do good work” just like everyone thinks that they have “good taste”. But we all know that there is a lot of sloppy work and with very questionable taste. And just like all businesses there are some that will rip you off if you do not learn about what it is you asking of them.
Augustiner | 9 years and 8 months ago
does that include structural engineer and mechanical engineer? probably not. The main question is if to what extent the architect will be involved in the project after filing. In any case I would make it a fixed amount and determine exatly the scope of work, because otherwise you will be spending more than 35k if that’s the estimate he gave you at the beginning of the project. Why will he be charging more? because he can.
carmenf | 9 years and 8 months ago
The time, the scope changes, the arguing with the DOB, the sprinklers, the mortgage on a house that you can’t work on that’s sitting for 6 months…8 months… 10 months.. 15 months… it’s a delightful experience. Then comes the special inspectors, which someone mentioned, that are not included and are another 5k, plus the soil borings/test pits which no one mentions and are also 3-4k… don’t forget about the expeditor (who is worthless but required) at 5-15k depending on how crazy the DOB decides to be…
mario71 | 9 years and 8 months ago
I would think about it as a percentage of the construction costs. For an architect, anything below 20%, especially if it includes supervising the contractors, expediter, filing and/or special inspection fees, is reasonable. Filing fees can easily be 1,500 (again, that’s a percentage of estimated cost in an alt-1), but you get nowhere without an expediter, which can cost 4,000 or more easily. Then there are the visits by a special inspector approved by DOB but paid by you, who can charge you up to 1,000 per visit (number of visits depends on scope of work and how well you coordinate with workers so he can inspect and sign-off on as many issues as possible on each visit)
laurenpacker123 | 9 years and 8 months ago
it’s incredible to me that there is such a huge range in cost for this from one person to the next.
laurenpacker123 | 9 years and 8 months ago
Thanks Carmen. Dare I ask what is so horrible about the alt-1 permit?… aside from the fact that we may need to way several months.
carmenf | 9 years and 8 months ago
That doesn’t seem extraordinarily high, but I would def. fact-check that $35k for the construction bid. That seems extremely low to me if you’re adding sqft. Also be prepared for the nightmare that is an alt-1 permit.
bedstuyreno | 9 years and 8 months ago
Those fees seems high. I did a gut renovation on the duplex of my brownstone- moving and adding bathrooms, kitchen etc. Fee was 8k for the filling, drawings and site visits.
laurenpacker123 | 9 years and 8 months ago
thank you all. This is helpful. The extension is pretty basic… we are bumping out the space on the ground floor to be flush with the current mudroom, and adding windows/doors. We are taking town a supporting wall on the ground floor and adding and I-beam as well. Architect along with Expeditor are filing with he DOB. Those fees for the architect to file were included in the 35K (thought the city fees are not) We have a project manager working with us and are bidding out subs directly.
nyc_sport | 9 years and 8 months ago
The hourly rates are quite low. You pay more than that for a plumber’s helper. You don’t say the scope of the renovation, but it is pretty easy to get to 300 hours on a significant project. Unless you are looking for someone to draw some plans and disappear (not likely to be a good idea on a significant project), the $35K is not high, and sounds low for townhouse renovation.
midwoodflyer | 9 years and 8 months ago
We did a full townhouse “gut” reno and our architectural fees exceeded 130k. There is certainly a range of service one can pay for professional services. I’m sure you could find an architect to do basic DOB filing drawings for several thousand dollars. What i can tell you is, that in the end the more detailed your drawings and up front leg work is, the less chance for surprises and the more accurate a bid you will be able to get. Trying ideas out on paper is cheap compared to trying them out with material in the field. Good Luck.
daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 8 months ago
The hourly doesn’t sound high at all. I assume you mean that the entire cost of the construction is $35,000\. That doesn’t sound high either especially with adding a “small extension” and a bathroom. The “as-is” drawings are necessary to start the floorplan for the renovations and new work. The devil is always in the details. If you could give us more info on the scope of the “small extension” it would be helpful. Is he pulling all permits? Otherwise, how are all of the DOB filings being handled? They can run into some more money that may not be included in these numbers. It also sounds like you have yet to get actual contractor bids too.