Soundproofing between brownstones
I recently purchased a brownstone in Bed Stuy. I was excited to leave my thin walled condo in which I could smell food cooking and could clearly hear my neighbors talking. Luckily, they were usually quiet and respectful. I thought that a brownstone would be free from any sound issues between brownstones. Turns out I was extremely naive. The noise between our bedroom wall and our neighbors wall is ridiculously loud. You can hear a pin drop. They are up blasting music, talking all night and have a barking dog. We are looking into soundproofing to keep our sanity. We want to do it right. I’ve heard a million different opinions about the most effective ways to do it. Has anyone done this in their brownstone with success or at least a very significant improvement? Thanks for your feedback.
jsaul
in About Brooklyn 11 years and 9 months ago
12
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12 replies
bklynpwds | 11 years and 9 months ago
We could hear our neighbor’s loud conversations prior to our recent gut renovation. Our architect suggested a layer of quiet rock installed over the existing plaster in all the rooms that were on the party wall with the exception of the bathrooms. We followed his recommendation and are very pleased. We pretty much can’t hear any sounds coming through the walls where the quiet rock was installed. Since the bathroom does not have the quiet rock, we have something to compare it to and there is a marked difference. (His reasoning was that the tile on the walls would mitigate the sound and he was wrong.)
brucef | 11 years and 9 months ago
Ditto on the not removing plaster. It has mass which is helping, not hurting. In 99% of cases, the party wall is two courses thick, not always tight to each other. The exception to the two brick thickness comes on the back of the flue in their building. So is the problem somehow related to the area where the flue in his building(maybe the same front and back as yours) backs on yours? Not that the solution differs that much, but any location where the party wall has been penetrated by tradespeople locating electrical boxes by removing a brick on their side, or plumbing digging a channel to recess pipes on their side? Locating such a penetration gives you the opportunity to foam in that location to cut down free transmission of unwanted sound. Or, vice versa, a penetration of similar cause on your side?
Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago
removing the plaster does not seem like the best idea because you will – make a big dusty mess in your whole house – not see anything behind it but bricks that will solve your problem – make the sound transmission worse by removing one layer
NeoGrec | 11 years and 9 months ago
My guess is that the party wall between brownstones isn’t always two bricks thick. I know in my house we have accidentally broken through the party wall on one side and had the wall on the other side broken by our neighbors. In both cases it was plumbing work (placing pipes) that caused the damage. Two bricks thickness might be the desired standard but I daresay our Victorian forbears cut corners as often as today’s condo developers!
jsaul | 11 years and 9 months ago
I’m not sure if my lovely neighbor has exposed brick but I will ask. I don’t smell food or other odors but I have a feeling that the noise has something to do with eroded mortar or resonance from piping (the wall feels warm in a few areas). I think I’ll take the suggestion of removing the plaster and seeing what’s going on. Thanks for all of your help!
catboot | 11 years and 9 months ago
I think the problem of sound transfer is increased when people remove the plaster to expose the brick. Does your loud neighbor have exposed brick on their side of the wall? We have some noise from our neighbors, but they are exceedingly loud at times.
Arkady | 11 years and 9 months ago
I’m in the middle of 3 houses built at one time – 1883\. I hear piano, some music & the reverb of people on a metal spiral staircase as well as construction noise. Others I know have similar sound leaks through party walls. It’s not terribly disruptive & I just put up w/ it.
Goatcrapp | 11 years and 9 months ago
That’s odd – that party wall should be double-thick brick, plus the layers of lathe and plaster on each side… I never, ever hear my neighbors unless both of our windows are open. Never through the walls. The only exceptions to this would be when either of us has had work done, ie: saws, hammering etc you’ll hear, but not voices/ music. I would look into other possible sources of the issue. Is this happening on the top floor? You can sometimes run into issues where the above ceiling (but below roofline) partitioning has been removed (when replacing a roof for instance) or is damaged/ chewed through by rodents, etc. Your flor and roof joists also usually travel brick to brick, and if they match up with the joists in the building next door (or have worn away the intermediate layer between them enough) that could set up a resonant frequency that conducts sound very well. Could also be sound resonance from piping, if that piping isn’t isolated from the party wall – ie: it’s touching. Poorly sealed window frames and sashes are another common spot for sound resonance, especially if both buildings have siding on them (backyard facing walls for instance, often do) – creates a nice echoey path for sound to travel through. The only sound abatement i’ve had to do in my brick building was floor-through, specifically down the chase for the chimneys and where the radiator piping went through… and the street facing windows, which were single pane, and letting in every little sound from out front. In your case, if you’re really hearing it through the party wall, could it be that it’s a single thick layer of brick? Perhaps the mortar between has become very porous? (do you ever get smells from the cooking next door with the windows shut?) brownstones and other conjoined brick buildings with double thick party walls are usually very quiet unless there’s another issue at work. While sound abatement measures will work, if there’s an underlying cause, then you’re just masking a real issue that could become costly later (in the case of degraded/crumbling mortar, for instance)
GreenThinker | 11 years and 9 months ago
I know 1/2 QuietRock is basically 2 quarter inch sheet-rocks glued together with green glue. So, all the work has been done for you. This will cost you $50 a panel. Green Glue is about $15 a tube. 2 tubes are needed per 4 x 8 panel. Regular 1/4 sheet rock is about $10\. So, that comes out together $50\. You also have to factor in the extra time it’ll take you to glue it together, and the fact that it’ll take 30 days for it to get into the perfect sound deadening state. I don’t think there’s much of a difference between the two performance wise. Comparing costs with a 1/2 thick solution, your better off just getting the quiet rock. If budget allows you can get a few tubes of green glue to put on the studs followed by the sound board. There’s also the option of putting a furring channel on the wall first. Sound board between the channels. That will leave you a little less then a 1/2 air space. Then put soundboard on the whole wall, followed by quietrock or sheetrock. It’s really up to you, and how thick you’re willing to make the wall and how much money you wanna put into it. Goodluck
jsaul | 11 years and 9 months ago
Thanks a lot August and GreenThinker! What are your opinions of green glue vs. quietrock?
GreenThinker | 11 years and 9 months ago
I recommend removing the current lath/plaster or drywall. Installing 1/2 inch soundboard. Followed by 5/8 inch quietrock. With this option you won’t lose any inches off the width of the room. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-440-1-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R1-2-Sound-Board-206136/202090212?N=baxx#.UqTkmWRDtvc
Augustiner | 11 years and 9 months ago
The affected wall area is usually not very large. I have the problem in the room next to my stairway on one side only. But luckily no dogs and loud music. You can build a partition, not too close or maybe even detached from the party wall. Between the new partition and party wall goes Roxul. make sure to leave at least 1″ air space between Roxul and the wall. Use resilient clips such as Isomax to mount the chicago bars. Then mount 2 or 3 layers of sheetrock, glued together with Green Glue. Quietrock is also an option. That does the job, but I have to add that the effectiveness depends a bit on your situation (e.g. if the sound can be localized or if there´s a serious bass speaker involved that shakes your whole house)