Raising an entire story

I am considering doing a legal conversion from 2-family to 3-family. The house is a basement (more than 50% above grade) which is just being used for storage. Then there are 2 stories above, each serving as an independent dwelling. The idea was to do a major renovation on each apartment and possibly convert the basement to a 3rd apartment. We meet code EXCEPT for the ceiling height. My architect suggested that we raise the joists, which would move the first floor up nearly a foot. The ceilings on the 2 upper floors are 9.5 feet currently, which I love. The floors are old hardwood. The main downside is that I would reduce ceiling height on one of the original levels, I would lose my old floors, and some other aspects might be weird, such as window ledge being very close to the ground. The upside would be an additional rental income of roughly 1000 dollars. The cost would be about 17,000 plus cost of new hardwood floor. With this information, considering more than dividing 17,000 by 1,000, does it seem worth it?

whatsanacre

in About Brooklyn 12 years and 1 month ago

8

Please log in, in order to post replies!

8 replies

Newest Oldest

Lurker | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5209 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5197 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "113126"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(6) "Lurker"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Biam83uc193o8.v5qK1VChb9yjJ5vu."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(6) "lurker"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "jcjedi_10003@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "/forums/users/lurker/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2011-01-19 18:44:20"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "Lurker"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(113126)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I’m not an arch. but I’ve never heard of this kind of work and it seems odd. As someone who just got a load of bids for an extensive reno though, realistically you’re gutting your basement and parlor, plus changing mechanicals for the entire building, so I think you’re over 300k, probably more if you upgrade boiler, electric, windows etc while you do the work.

whatsanacre | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5208 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5207 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "181380"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(11) "whatsanacre"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BcRqKWgTULlpNJBPX9bwF6UDQGul4f."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(11) "whatsanacre"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "Rudderbutter@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:45:08"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(11) "whatsanacre"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(181380)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

No, the entire job would be well over 100K. The plan was to knock out walls, move plumbing,and change the floorplan of the existing floors, whether we do the 3-family conversion or not. The 17K quote was the cost of raising the floor only. It would give us the clearance to create a 3rd apartment. I’m eliminating the other costs because I’m only questioning whether I should consider the conversion, given that it may damage the aesthetic of the house with reduced ceiling clearance on the first floor and the loss of the old hardwood. Im also wondering if anyone knows how much taxes will go up, and if there are any other considerations. Sprinklers aren’t really an issue because we’re doing new plumbing from the basement, right up. Fire escapes and other considerations are of interest. Keep the comments coming.

Lurker | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5204 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5210 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "113126"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(6) "Lurker"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$Biam83uc193o8.v5qK1VChb9yjJ5vu."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(6) "lurker"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "jcjedi_10003@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "/forums/users/lurker/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2011-01-19 18:44:20"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "Lurker"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(113126)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Either you have been misinformed, or aren’t explaining the price quote well enough. You’d pay 17 grand or more just for the engineering and architectural plans! My guess is you’re looking at 150-200 thousand depending on finishes, moving of walls, egress etc. That said I have never heard of raising a floor. Do you get an all new stoop as well to get you up the extra foot or two? Then you need a new stair to the floor above too. And a new one to basement. Plus all new mechanicals, new bathrooms and kitchens and everything. Just drop your basement floor. (That will cost under 17k, but not much)

resident2 | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5207 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5209 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "181002"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BYKCrEpDU34.3RJghRPk8/Xp1XpCve/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "Jamanda1255@Yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:07:33"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "resident2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(181002)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

There is no way you can convert a two family to a legal three for $17,000!! and for a $1,000 a month income it is certainly not worth it even if you could, the NYC tax assessors are going to increase your real estate taxes, the insurance rates will go up a smidgen, your water & sewer rates will go up for the additional tenants flushing their toilet and taking showers etc. etc. etc. not to mention the lose of rent from your other tenant while all this construction is going on. $1,000 a month….not worth and your architect that you are working with is not telling you the whole story. Are you sure this this is not just the bill for his fees? There is no way all the work can get done for that price, this is not HGTV!

pigthree | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5210 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5208 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "14451"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(8) "pigthree"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BLWPHnp6ACZZrNPDRPJDLuA5YeTYn3."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "pig-three-2-2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(18) "go67racing@mac.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "/forums/users/pig-three/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-17 21:34:36"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(9) "pig three"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(14451)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Does the house have sprinklers? Going from a two to a three will most likely trigger the sprinkler requirement.

dazednconfused2 | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5204 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5211 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "209624"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(63) "$wp$2y$10$OVp3c2Jy2rFrep9pkYgqb.Bg6QIFyqDaYi1MECkQCN/aKcThZvdau"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "un.perceived@gmail.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2024-07-04 18:01:21"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "dazednconfused2"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(209624)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I’m with CMU and Jock. Raising the floor means redoing everything on that floor. It’s not a “major renovation” but a complete gut. All plumbing fixtures will need to be raised, so there’s extra work there. And consider the windows. They’ll suddenly by a foot closer to the floor. You’d probably want to move them up (making them a foot closer to the ceiling instead) or replacing them with smaller windows. So now there’s potentially significant exterior work. Consider dropping the basement slab.

jockdeboeraia | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5207 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5212 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "40876"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "jockdeboeraia"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BTfkV3DGGseot8oNyuG6kVhsNhUD2n1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "jockdeboeraia"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(22) "jdeboer@jockdeboer.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(31) "/forums/users/deboerarchitects/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:51"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "VK4zWrfWbTPHLfSSlGZI"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "jockdeboeraia"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(40876)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I suppose you cannot dig down as that would make it a cellar?

cmu | 12 years and 1 month ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5210 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5213 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "1452"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(3) "cmu"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BAgbyB/HMjW1bkU2j50UcmzgpaBAo2."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(3) "cmu"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "chandrumurthi@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(33) "http:///forums/users/splitsville/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:48:11"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(3) "cmu"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(1452)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Uuh…17k? I’m used to ridiculously high renovation estimates here, which I frqequently contest, but your is way the opposite. Do you mean 170k? Or are you not including adding a kitchen, a bath, walls and finishing the basement?