Kitchen Hearths?
So the house we are closing on in a couple weeks has a couple of strange looking fireplace hearth things in the kitchens both upstairs and down that they currently have gas ranges sitting in front of or slightly into. They kind of appear to be the back side of the fireplaces to the house…
So the house we are closing on in a couple weeks has a couple of strange looking fireplace hearth things in the kitchens both upstairs and down that they currently have gas ranges sitting in front of or slightly into. They kind of appear to be the back side of the fireplaces to the house next door but they are about 5 feet tall and are square recesses about the width of a conventional range which probably had some sort of wood stoves recessed into them when the house was built? It’s obvious that they couldn’t be easily removed – especially if they are indeed connected to the house next door as they are brick and this brick appears to run all the way to the ceiling on both floors. Does anyone have pictures or suggestions about what to do with them to incorporate them into the rooms and what they were for originally? The house would have originally been a 1 family so I find it odd that there is one upstairs in what would have probably been an upstairs bedroom. We would like to make that room into a master bath. In the matching room below, which is the going to remain the kitchen we would like to somehow incorporate it into the room but we would also like to get a nice Wolf or Viking stove so I don’t think one would fit back into that recess, but it would be cool if it indeed has an open chimney that could double as a vent for the stove. Downstairs they do have a ventahood stuck into this slot and have glued on some copper colored tiles all around that area. Curious if anyone else has these in their houses and what you did with them? I suppose the one upstairs could become a linen closet or something as there are also regular type fireplaces on the opposite walls in what will be the bedroom upstairs and the dining area below that we will refinish as decorative or put gas logs in. Would love to see pics of what others have done with these things and know what their original purpose was. I tried to post a pic but for some reason it wont upload.
P.S. What size are those pocket doors? Can we buy them from you? 🙂
“just seems odd upstairs with several doors leading to the landing rather than just one or two entries”
That’s right, the old two- and three-families have multiple doors leading to the hall/common hall and often no master entry. Weird, huh? I’ve seen gazillions of them.
“beaming wherever necessary for structure”
Yes, watch out, the wall between the kitchen and dining room is structural. In fact, they all are. If you’re not an architect yourself, I’d strongly suggest you get one for this scope of work. You will save yourself so much trouble in the long run. Or, at the very least, hire a structural engineer. You DO NOT want to leave these matters to a demo/roughin contractor. Believe me.
Hope you can use the existing floors. I think you can.
Also, one other thing, just be aware that if you have all your original doorways and pocket doors in place, they do have a function as far as heating, cooling, and noise control. I am not saying abandon your plans or anything because you have obviously thought this through and know exactly what you want to do (love the plan to separate the tin ceilings and cap with plaster ornamentation — wonderful) but just be aware that closing off the front bedroom will make both it and the middle rooms torturously hot in the summer.
Are you by any chance planning to add HVAC? That could be a solution.
Since your scope of work is so big, I would also consult with a chimney expert right up front. If there are any structural issues or HVAC considerations, best to handle that at the same time you’re doing everything else.
Good luck and have fun!
Thanks for the suggestions guys/gals. In the downstairs kitchen there is an old range already in there, and it appears to be a standard 30″ size, so I think we will go back with something similar – maybe a 30″ Electrolux or Viking and just put it in the space after refinishing it with new tile or stripping/cleaning the brick behind the copper colored tile that is there now. I don’t think the hearth will need to be altered. The wall between the rear dining room and kitchen has been partially taken out already with a half wall/shelf, so we are going to have the entire wall removed and put an island where that half wall is now to separate the kitchen and dining areas to provide more under cabinet space and an ice maker, wine chiller, etc as well. It very well could have always been a 2 family, just seems odd upstairs with several doors leading to the landing rather than just one or two entries – the old doors seem to be original, and the walls/doors which actually sealed off the two apartments are newer sheetrock rather than the old plaster. It is going to become a one family regardless of original setup by opening up the front parlor and front center room by removing the dividing pocket door wall and also opening the resulting room to the entry and stairwell with an arched doorway spanning both rooms. The rear center room will become a pass-through with a built-in computer desk counter on one side with cabinet/bookshelves above. Upstairs we are taking over both center rooms (removing the center wall) to make the center area a large bed area and the rear parlor/bedroom will become a master sitting area. The old upstairs kitchen, closets, pantry, etc will become the master bath and closet after some walls are removed, and the front bedroom (or old front upstairs parlor whichever the case may be) with pocket doors will be sealed off to become a separate bedroom, and the small front room over the entry will probably be used as a walk-in closet for that bedroom or for me another home office area. We will eventually also finish the basement as a giant den/laundry/storage with a separate boiler room. Here soon I will be looking for a demo contractor to take out those few walls and open up the archway, beaming wherever necessary for structure and/or to separate the tin ceilinged rooms with shallow beams that I would also like to cap with plaster ornamentations on the ends to match the existing plaster medallions and such. We can do the sheetrock and plaster finishwork, flooring, paint, etc, we just need someone to demo those walls, beam where necessary, add some sheetrock back to fill in the gaps – and haul off the mess. So if anyone knows of a decently priced (and fast) demo/roughin contractor I’d love to hear suggestions.
If you choose to put you stove elsewhere, you could use the space to hang pots using a ceiling pot hanger such as: http://www.amazon.com/Gourmet-Rectangular-Black-Metal-Chrome/dp/B00008KIVK/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1302546168&sr=8-13
You could build in open shelves below for other display or storage. Assuming you removed the tile and restored the brickwork, this could be very attractive AND practical.
As various posters have said, just be careful you don’t make any radical changes to those hearths without first consulting a chimney expert (Andre at A&A, who advertises on this site, is also good) or structural engineer.
OP, of course I would have to see it in person, but the setup really sounds like it was originally two separate apartments. The floor plan you describe was absolutely typical around 1900-1910 (of course I realize yours is later).
The house will look like a regular two-story row house. It may have a curved front. The front room is the parlor, the rear room is the dining room, the two rooms in the middle are both bedrooms. Of course, it is a flexible layout, and often the rear dining room (and sometimes the front parlor) were used as bedrooms.
The fact that the “bedroom” with the fireplace on the top floor is directly over the kitchen on the bottom floor gives it away. Also, the fact that both layouts are identical (except for the usual additional small front room over the entry).
Usually, especially at this late date (1920s) there would be a door at the main entrance to each suite of apartments. However, many two families were built without such doors, including ours. So that alone does not mean it was a one family.
In any case, measure your hearth to see how big a stove you can fit in there. I was surprised to find ours fit a 30-inch. Some are bigger and will fit a 42-inch. If you don’t find a stove you like to fit the space, see if you can locate a bigger stove elsewhere in the kitchen. Another useful trick is to try to place ugly appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines in adjacent pantries or porches, freeing up more room in the kitchen. Though I realize with the layout you describe, you may not have any pantries.
Whatever you do, remember to leave an aisle of at least 3 feet. Otherwise the space will feel cramped, and you may have trouble opening appliance doors.
You might want to consult with a kitchen designer with experience re-doing old kitchens. Old appliances and counters weren’t as deep as modern ones, and old kitchens often used worktables rather than built-in countertops.
I have one in my house and I put a Hoosier cabinet and
refrigerator in the space. There are cabinets above my
space with crackle glass doors.
Thanks Mopar. I will know more about the upstairs setup after we close on the house and rip out the upstairs range and those shelves built inside the “hearth.” We were told it was originally a one family, and from the layout it would seem to have had to have been. The house was built in 1920 on Orient Avenue (the old Greenpoint Hospital’s Dpctor’s Row as it was called). The basement, although it has 8 foot ceilings and a flat concrete floor with front and rear entries, has never been finished. The main parlor floor has a series of all connected front parlor, 2 center rooms with pocket doors, and a large rear parlor and kitchen to the rear right side, so it doesn’t appear those would have ever been designed as bedrooms even though they are using the front parlor as one, and the upstairs is the typical small bedroom over the entry, then a large adjacent bedroom, 2 center rooms, a large rear bedroom, and then another rear bedroom over the kitchen below with that other hearth. You can see where they sealed the upstairs and downstairs hallways with doors and sheetrock at some point to create 2 apartments, so it would have originally all been open, so I tend to think it was built as a one family. Plus you can see where they split the electrical sometime in the 70’s or 80’s and it only has one boiler, one water heater, and gas line. I suppose it could have been built as 2 railroad apartments, but it doesn’t really look like it was ever an apartment type building. it is curious though that they would have a kitchen hearth in an upstairs bedroom. Maybe it was originally just a regular fireplace that someone at some point enlarged to add those shelves. It is definitely not as tall as the downstairs one, but taller than a typical fireplace opening. As narrow as that bedroom would have been though, I would have been afraid to have a fire going in there with flammable bed linens. No telling. It’s going to become a master bath though and I’m sure I will figure out something to do with the hearth – maybe wrap it in subway tile and install glass shelves for towels. Hopefully I can find a nice professional range for the kitchen that will fit into the one downstairs or else just use it as a nook to install other appliances in.
Yes, as OP says, those are kitchen hearths. They originally housed built-in ranges (stoves) for cooking. So they didn’t have the types of mantles you see in the other rooms of the house, which were usually designed for coal or gas fires for heating.
I’m a little puzzled by the one on the top floor. It seems to look a little different, as if it were added later, but I would have to see more pictures or see it in person to be sure.
(Just FYI, not every house built was a one family; there is such a thing as an original two-family dating from about the 1890s. Ours has an original hearth and firewall on the third floor but it is not a chimney. I am not sure how the stove would have been vented originally.)
Anyway, these aren’t the backs of anything. These are your chimneys. You should consult with a chimney expert such as Manny LaSalle before making any changes. They are structural and you can’t alter them will-nilly.
As for using them for ventilation for a stove, that’s a wonderful thing to do. I’m a little uncertain how exactly you go about it. The standard approach seems to be to put a metal liner into the chimney and connect it to a standard vent hood, which looks terrible in my opinion. Usually a liner for a stove (not a boiler) costs about $2,000 to put in, if there are no other issues with the chimney.
There may be some kind of option where the hood is recessed into the chimney so you can’t see it, but I don’t know the details. Maybe someone else here can comment.