Energy Efficient Renovation Recommendations??
Hi. I’m in the midst of planning renovations to a modest 2300sq/ft cinderblock mixed use building and would like to make it as efficient as possible within a reasonable budget. So far I’ve met with a Passive House Consultant and was loosely quoted 200-300k to get a high performing building (basically to gut the place,…
Hi. I’m in the midst of planning renovations to a modest 2300sq/ft cinderblock mixed use building and would like to make it as efficient as possible within a reasonable budget. So far I’ve met with a Passive House Consultant and was loosely quoted 200-300k to get a high performing building (basically to gut the place, reframe to get rid of thermal bridging, etc.) This seems way too excessive for the building and even my energy use goals. I would love a passive house, but I’m pretty sure they are ways to get about 80% of the way there, for about a third of the cost. The scope of the work will include:
-8 new triple pane windows
-6 hefty insulated doors
-double framing some walls to increase the insulation amount
-trying to get rid of all glaring air infiltration
-blowing dense-pack cellulose
-sheet-rocking with acoustic glue
-Pouring new concrete floor
-re-doing 2 modest bathrooms
-1 new decent kitchen
-build a double walled, decoupled sound room (for audio mixing).
-new tankless hot water heater
-a mini-split system w/ 3 indoor units
-an HRV or ERV
-new roof (with a green roof)
-some small combo of PV or solar hotwater
The level of finishes will basically be raw/industrial, with nothing too fancy (besides a nice-ish kitchen/appliances). The layout won’t be radically modified. I guessing I could get this done for about 100-150k. Is this crazy talk? Also does anyone have recommendations for contractors/low-ego architects that are nit-picky enough to do a good job? Most architects I’ve dealt with don’t seem to understand that perfect is the enemy of really damn good! Thanks in advance.
I don’t think your budget is out of line if you are doing most of the work yourself. $150K is a lot of money if you are not paying for $100/hour labor. The PV incentives are strong, and there are other incentives for solar hot water that I think would help. I can help you navigate some of that with a phone call. I don’t live downstate, but I could help put together a package with instructions that you could install yourself. That’s what I do for people. Some people are just trying to keep this technology a big mystery. Let me know if I could help.
Thanks! I’ll get in touch.
After mulled it a bit, I think I’m going go with some sort of architect/contractor/diy/sub-contract it myself route. I basically just want the building evaluated and approached as a system by a professional and then I can probably handle most of the rest (after the essentials are in). I really think this could be carefully done for $150k-ish (especially after tax incentives).
Just to reiterate the layout isn’t really changing (besides adding a kitchen on a wet wall) and by “re-do bathrooms” I mean basically subway tile and reuse the fixtures (or buy some salvaged). The rest of the building will literally be like a raw “art gallery space” (but well insulated with nice efficient mechanicals). The sound room will be about 20×30′ and just needs a lot of studs/sheetrock/resilient channels/acoustic glue/nice doors
I do understand that the cost of materials/labor is high, but is it 2x anywhere else (the range for a deep energy retrofit elsewhere is about $35-100k)? I also just had a very reputable building inspector tell me that you could easily gut a 4 story brownstone and put in off the shelf, but classy finishes for 200k (and that is with a ok contractor). Maybe I’m totally delusional, but I’m going to see how low I can keep the budget. Thanks again!
Practical architecture….I have a client right now who is going through the GCY process, with similar budget and goals..email me off group and I’d be happy to relay some info. [ danyellduomo@gmail.com ]
If you are seriously looking for a passive house. You want to look at radiant floor heating. Especially if you are pouring a new concrete slab. I would be happy to talk to you about that, you can contact me at pfrank@radiantcomplete.com. There are a number of things that you can do from a building mechanicals standpoint that are “not that expensive”. Another thing about your article that I see all the time. The general rule on the HRV/ERV selection is that HRV’s are in heating dominant environments, and ERV’s are for cooling dominant environments. If I had a dollar for every client that asked me for an ERV in New York state because they “wanted to save energy” I would be retiring months earlier.
Let me know if I can help.
GC your self and can do for that 150k price.
All Renovation (www.allrenovationllc.com) recently completed a beautiful Passive House gut renovation in Park Slope. You can view the photos here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/allrenovationnyc/3rdStBrooklynPassiveHouseBrownstoneCompleted?feat=directlink
I think aceintheslope is right on with the pricing, you should contact at least 3 GC’s who have worked on Passive Home projects (ask them to give you a tour!) and price out accordingly…obviously request an itemized estimate.
Best,
Allan S.
Thanks for the informed replys!
Ouch! Looks like I just need to overcome my sticker shock! I’ve come to grips with the prices of real estate, but I guess not renovating. Just to make sure, is there anyway to cut costs (sub-contract it myself, phase it ,etc)? This is my first reno and I’m definitely having growing pains.
For a 2300sf space you need to figure at least $150/sf which would bring you to 345k. And that’s with just a competent general contractor. If you want a contractor that will nit-pick and make sure all is perfect figure on spending closer to 400k.
My guess is a “minimal but nice” level of work probably averages out to $100/sq. foot (and over time you’ll probably ending up making changes/additions which will double that number). In terms of energy efficiency, I think your window/door budget, where spending on quality will make a huge difference, is way too low – $30-50K is probably more like it, but I was confused about the number of doors you referenced. Roof number looks high, but again, depending on what you want to do, may be right. Your Kitchen/Baths number is definitely low – triple it at least. I think your misconception is that trying to meet the passive house standard is wildly driving up the costs, but the differential is probably a lot smaller than you think for what you describe. Construction in NYC is just expensive – no way around it. Oh, and I definitely agree with your view that getting up to the standard is really not important – getting even close will save you a ton of money (and give you a more comfortable house) over time.