Support Beam vs. Pillar vs. Opening
A design question. I am pondering a renovation of my 20 foot wide Cobble Hill brownstone. It is a pretty standard design in that you walk in on the parlor floor and there is a wall on your right with a set of double doors. Since we are going from a bottom duplex with two…
A design question. I am pondering a renovation of my 20 foot wide Cobble Hill brownstone. It is a pretty standard design in that you walk in on the parlor floor and there is a wall on your right with a set of double doors. Since we are going from a bottom duplex with two rentals to an owner’s triplex I would REALLY like to open up the space and get rid of that narrow brownstone feel. My architect (ok, former architect, the relationship really wasn’t working for me) was advocating enlarging the opening so that we wouldn’t need to involve a structural engineer, but I am leaning toward a beam covered by a soffit(sp?). I am throwing these terms around as if I know what I am talking about. I don’t. Does anyone have any insight/thoughts/inspration?
Yes, technically they weren’t bearing walls, as most of the time the joists span from one masonry wall to the other. However, the joists do sag over time and are often being supported by these non-“bearing” walls. Many engineers commonly refer to these walls as stiffening walls because of this. The same walls are usually bearing at the stairs as they do generally pick up the load of the joists cut around the stairwell.
Also, the deflection we see as sagging floors would not pass current code, so today you would have to put in a bearing wall or beam, or make the joists stronger.
We have removed the hall wall in a 22′ wide parlor floor.
Technically, that hall wall is NOT structural. The older historic homes were constructed open, and lathe and plaster was applied to the ceiling before hall walls, or room dividers were put in place. When demo’ing interior partitions, there is plaster and lathe on top of framing, so “support” walls don’t touch floor joists above.
Nevertheless, we have utilized laminated Paralams any way, in effect a huge header.
While we did this to open rear rather than front, I can send JPG’s if you email us bruce at jerseydata.net
oooh, mopar, that looks like a fascinating book! can’t wait to read it!
Enlarging an existing opening needs an engineer unless it is not load bearing. It does not sound like it is non-load bearing.
BHS, that sounds like “House Thinking” by Winifred Gallagher. A very good book. Have you read it? Or perhaps write it? 🙂
Actually, Bob Marvin makes a good point. You should visit some open houses for houses built from the turn of the century till WWI to get an idea of what the parlor looks like without the wall. However some of these they moved the staircase back to give the parlor more space and row houses became wider and less tall in the early 20th century. They would usually have a vestibule if not a covered front porch and a vestibule. They also traditionally would have a service entrance in the back (aka kitchen door) so that walking right into the living room was less of an issue back then. Also, there were usually doors dividing the living room from the dining room and kitchen so the living room itself took on part of the function of an entry hall.
Personally, I think some of the current excitement about building “man cave” lairs in the house is a byproduct of open floor plan decorating. It’s nice to have adjoining spaces that can be made a bit separate when you’re talking on the phone or watching that TV program everyone else thinks is stupid, or just trying to study or read in peace.
I believe in reading a building and making decisions on what will feel best in that particular building. Spend some time just sitting in the space imagining what it will feel like when it’s really cold outside and windy or hot and humid. Having the wall will allow you to keep the parlor warm or AC’d without necessarily heating or cooling the stairwell to the same degree. It will allow you to keep shoes, mail, or umbrellas in the entry without having to look at them while you’re relaxing on the couch or dining table. It will allow you to open the door for a delivery without the delivery person being able to see who all is home and what everyone is doing. And it will give visitors or delivery people a place to stand without feeling like they’re invading on your personal space. Narrow buildings can feel like perfect little homes with everything in its tidy place, so don’t feel like you have to open things up and brighten things up just because that’s most people’s first impulse. It takes a lot of patience and imagination to read what fits best with your building. I would spend the money on quality functional built-in shelves and closets before taking out a wall that was a central part of the original design.
Many later row houses (c.late 1890s–1910s) with “free classic” interiors, were built with a layout similar to what you propose. IMO they DO look wider. It’s one of the things that first attracted me to PLG, in general, and my own house, in particular.
I have a 20.5′ Brownstone and considered taking out that wall during our gut reno. After all the other stuff, it proved to be too costly, but i’m not sorry we couldn’t do it. Instead, we took the doors off the hinges (stowed them in the cellar for future purists) and created an open archway. It made the room feel much bigger than i thought it would because there was no need to make room for said doors. The LR seems plenty big enough for us. I’d try doing the same before demolition. It only takes a few minutes and it could save you $$$.