Need Permit for Spiral Stairs?
My condo has a pull-down ladder that leads to a large room that’s on the plans as an “attic”. I’d like to remove the ladder and put in a spiral staircase. What I currently have is one of these guys: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F2DPR5GKL._SL500_AA280_.jpg Does what I have count as an existing set of stairs? Do I need…
My condo has a pull-down ladder that leads to a large room that’s on the plans as an “attic”. I’d like to remove the ladder and put in a spiral staircase.
What I currently have is one of these guys:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21F2DPR5GKL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
Does what I have count as an existing set of stairs? Do I need to get a permit to put in the spiral staircase?
Thanks in advance and have a great weekend.
By law you need a permit. Yes. You might not even get an approval as sometimes the attic got a floor area exemption because of this ship ladder thing versus fixed stairs. There are various issues that may come up according to the building code and the DOB also does not have a clear answer. I have had already multiple discussions with Brooklyn DOB staff on all outstanding stuff for such scenarios on a multitude of jobs.
I would recommend against doing any illegal building work. Such work will undoubtedly present a problem when time comes to sell the property – although you many not intend to sell it now, circumstances change and you may need to do so in the future. If you are having a rush sale because you need to move interstate for work, having unapproved alterations can slow the process because you need to get them approved or removed. I would also be wary of unapproved alterations because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are strictly enforcing their rules at the moment, if you (or potentially one of your neighbors) ever want to finance or refinance your condo, unapproved alterations may cause a problem for any potential lender. It may take time and money to do it properly, but you’ll thank yourself in the future if you need to sell or finance. If I was on your board, I would be arguing in favor of requiring all owners to get permits or lodge some kind of statement from a registered architect that a permit is not required.
These memos and even older ones still apply. the 1938 building code still applies to most aspects of pre-1968 buildings and the Multiple dwelling law is still older yet. Good architects and expediters know how to use this stuff and are worth every penny. The problem is the rank and file plan examiners and building inspectors that don’t know this and the three months that it can take sometimes to get to someone at DOB who gets it.
LOL, that memo is 22 years old!!! I bet most DOB employees don’t even know about it. I suspect this is the sort of thing that if you went to the DOB 8 different times you’d get 8 different answers.
There is a rather long and prescriptive DOB memo on this subject. The method of access is not part of the criteria.This is what applies.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/za8.pdf
There is a rather long and prescriptive DOB memo on this subject. The method of access is not part of the criteria.This is what applies.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/za8.pdf
Jockd is an architect, so is professionally obligated to answer whether this would require a permit under city construction law by saying yes. Since it does.
Of course it’s in many cases possible to go with the other advice above and build it illegally. You could skip the permit, and then you will either have repercussions, or you won’t. But I’m taking it that by the question you’re not asking whether you could get away with it, but what the city’s rules are.
Why would it matter from the city’s perspective? two reasons. One, the city’s intention is to proscibe stairs that are safe. Two, there is a question of zoning regulation, since buildings can be built larger than normally allowed if the extra space is non-habitable (ie your attic) but you are not then allowed to convert the non-habitable space into real habitable square footage, if the allowable square footage is all used up. That’s the same technique that Scarano used to call extra floors “storage mezzanines” and make three story buildings actually six stories in a three story neighborhood.
So if you were to apply for a permit, the DoB would look at two things: whether the stair complies with code, and whether you’re turning non-habitable space into more habitable space than the building’s allowed.
try this – existing folding ladder vs. fixed ladder, no change in opening, easier to use, more stable, railings
how do the masses vote?
may have egress, fire implications, if it was a single family i’d say big deal but since its a condo, you have other people to think about. do the right thing.