Radiant Heat/Cooling on the code
Researching about radiant heating and cooling systems I’ve seen this site: http://www.radiantec.com/pdf/Radiant_Heat_Design_and_Construction.pdf I would like to install it below the floor, between the joists. The floor is just a 1 inch old pine (the original subfloor). Everybody talks about the heating. Is that also effective for cooling? Why not get two for the price of…
Researching about radiant heating and cooling systems I’ve seen this site: http://www.radiantec.com/pdf/Radiant_Heat_Design_and_Construction.pdf
I would like to install it below the floor, between the joists. The floor is just a 1 inch old pine (the original subfloor).
Everybody talks about the heating. Is that also effective for cooling? Why not get two for the price of one?
Is it legal in NY building code?
Furthermore in NYC,pex used for radiant heating is not allowed for potable means,or anything that passes through a heating system.
To radiantec guy.If you designed a system and it does not work to system specification,then something is wrong.I know that radiantec specified the system and that the only branding you actually do is the switching relays,differential controllers,but you do have some responsibility to ensure the system work to your specification.You let the contractor create their own manifolds and basically commission it without a third part verification.Maybe you should not claim a “radiantec system “unless it is verified by a factory representative.What masterplvmber saw,is what i encountered on one of your designed systems.Comment.
Hello Everybody:
As a Radiantec Employee, I feel compelled to respond to some of the posts above. My intention is not to argue with anybody but to simply state some facts.
Radiantec has been selling the Direct System for more than 20 years. There has not been ONE SINGLE INCIDENT of sickness reported with its use. The critics will say that many cases of Legionairres Disease are misdiagnosed or unreported. Legionairres Disease is a reportable illness and must be reported to the Center of Disease control. Again I state, there has not been one single case of Legionnaires Disease that has been attributed to the Direct System in 20 YEARS! How many years of safe operation does it take for people to admit that a Direct System as designed by Radiantec is no more harmful than any conventional plumbing system?
The International Code Council (ICC) does not forbid the installation of Direct Systems. Our system has been evaluated by the ICC. The International Code Council or ICC is the largest and most respected code council in the world. Many States and Municipalities have adopted the ICC either in part or entirety. It was created in 2003 when the four major code councils (BOCA,ICBO,SBCCI and ICC)officially combined their operations in order to reduce confusion and to enhance the safety, quality and efficiency of building construction.The new code council ICC, combines all of the knowledge, competencies and experience of the four original code councils. The ICC Model Codes underline most of the building codes in the United States.
The ICC provides an evaluation service (ICC-ESS) in part so that new or improved or more efficient building materials and techniques can be evaluated by highly knowledgeable professionals.
In order to assist customers and building code officials, Radiantec has submitted its design concepts to ICC-ES for their evaluation and determination of compliance. If anyone is interested, the report # is ESR-2841.
We make it very clear to all of our customers before they purchase any of our systems (yes, we do sell systems other than the direct) that they MUST check with their local building department to find out what is acceptable in their area.
The only other post I want to rebut is the one by Master Plumber. He shows a picture of a plumbing nightmare, I agree. What everybody should know is there was not one single Radiantec component in that picture. Nada. Zip. So, if he called our company for technical advice on a botched plumbing job that wasn’t our design or even our equipment, is it much of a surprise that we weren’t able to help him?? Is it possible that we sold the tubing for the project? Yes, that’s possible. But to post pictures and proclaim them to be a Radiantec System when they are not is tremendously irresponsible and slanderous but we see this ALL THE TIME! There are many radiant companies out there with VERY similar names which get confused with Radiantec on a regular basis.
One final blurb before I let you go. Last winter I sold a system to a gentleman in a poorly insulated structure. We discussed at lengths the limitations of radiant heat in a structure like this. He was told verbally and in writing that there was NO WAY the radiant heat would give him all of the heat that he needed but would be a nice supplement to what he already has. He claimed that he understood and purchased the system for what I thought would be supplemental heating. Imagine my surprise when a few months later he’s on a forum bashing Radiantec for a system that only heated his room to 65 when he wanted it to be 70! He had taken out all of his baseboards when he was specifically told that he would still need them yet he was blaming us. What is my point? You should remember that there are always two sides to every story.
We never want to sell a system that doesn’t meet a customer’s expectations. We know that if a homeowner or contractor installs our system using OUR instructions and equipment, the results will be positive.
Thanks for your time.
i believe the big problem with using underfloor radiant for cooling is that in NYC summertime climate the cold pipes (pex or whatever) will sweat causing mold problems.
Oh, sorry. Please check it again.
Dear Master Plvmber, I have been unable to see any photographs from your link. I am getting this message: “This photo is private. Oops! You don’t have permission to view this photo.”
Am I the only one with this problem?
bklyn33 – it’s been a while, so I don’t remember exactly. I think the original flooring was kept on the first floor, which would have been 1/2″ – 3/4″ depending upon how many times it had been sanded, over 1/2″ or 3/4″ original subfloor, for a total of 1″ – 1 1/2″. Upstairs, we had new 3/4″ oak put down on top of the original subfloor, so again about 1 1/2″ thickness.
I believe the tubes were 1″ diameter, but I really don’t know about the heating costs.
Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Urban Pioneering Architecture
The problems with radiantec system was the loops became air-bound with the circulators being put on high to do efficient heat-transfer.THIS system was coupled with solar heating and in the winter ,with less solar insolation of the panels(about 120F),the radiant loop was kept at 160F(the water temperature of the domestic)which could not take advantage of the panel temperature to improve the efficiency.
The best system is not one that is boiler -plated by the manufacturer,but one that allow the inginuity of the installer with the input of the client and the best application of heat-transfer and controls to create a close to perfect system.Meanwhile look at ZURN and UPONOR,these companies have created good controls and systems.I am not one to advocate one or the other,because every situation requires different set-ups.
BK33, Radiantec tries to design a radiant floor heating system in a sight-unseen structure to be installed by homeowners or contractors who may or may not have any experience in the field at all.
The problems I encountered with their system last year were too numerous to list, but above all, the general construction and subfloor of the home were such that we eventually advised the client to abandon the floor heating system and install radiators instead. The system simply couldn’t function in this application without significant structural alteration. The GC on the job gave the client their money back for installing all of the radiant heat but the client was out for the purchase of the parts, which was about $7,000 if I remember correctly.
I have pictures documenting the whole job from where I took it over because I believe when the smoke clears between the client and contractor, there may be a valid lawsuit to consider.
Here’s a before: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gatewayplumbing/4359082583/
and two afters:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gatewayplumbing/4359093875/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gatewayplumbing/4359824900/