Dead Boiler, Replacement Issues
Hello all, here’s the situation: Boro Fuel (my oil supplier as per HEAT USA, the fuel buyer coop) came today to clean my 40 y.o. + boiler (steam heat) that I inherited when I purchased my 3-family brownstone in Bed Stuy two years ago, and pronounced it dead. It still produces heat, but has a…
Hello all, here’s the situation:
Boro Fuel (my oil supplier as per HEAT USA, the fuel buyer coop) came today to clean my 40 y.o. + boiler (steam heat) that I inherited when I purchased my 3-family brownstone in Bed Stuy two years ago, and pronounced it dead. It still produces heat, but has a huge crack from top to bottom and is leaking water everywhere. The Boro Fuel guy said it will probably work a little while longer, but will guzzle huge amounts of oil in the process and needs to be replaced. Fair enough.
I anticipated that my boiler would have to be replaced soon, so I purchased a separate equipment policy as part of my homeowners insurance through Chartis (used to be AIG). For a $500 deductable, Charitis claims that they will replace things like a boiler for up to 125% (or $100,000 tops – which this won’t be) of the replacement cost for a like-boiler that is energy efficient.
I expect that even though I have insurance, this will cost me more than $500 – that’s just how things usually work. However, because my personal resources are limited, every decision I make needs to be well considered.
That said, here are some questions:
1. Should I go with whatever new unit is suggested by Boro and agreed upon by Chartis, or should I take this opportunity to purchase the best quality, most energy-efficient unit with all the bells and whistles and pay for the difference? I’ve heard about systems that are able to be controlled via. remote access, and this is appealing to me as I am the sole owner and have tenants that rely on me to keep things running smoothly. It would be nice to go away for a weekend without having to worry.
2. My current boiler also heats the water for the home. Should I get a hot water tank in addition to the new boiler, or just go with the single, integrated boiler/hot water system?
3. The boiler room itself could use some upgrading in terms of fire-proofing the ceiling, etc.. Should I do that while the boiler is being replaced, or wait until after everything is done? I do not expect that this will be something covered by insurance.
4. Also, there is asbestos on the pipes in the boiler room, and I don’t believe Chartis will pay for the removal. However, it needs to be removed to replace the boiler. How much will it cost to remove and will the oil company be able to do the removal? Do I need to hire someone else?
5. Finally, I am having someone from Federated come to spray insulation into the roof of my home next Saturday. This will cost between $1800 – $2000. Should I keep the appointment or wait until after the boiler is replaced to see what kind of a difference a new boiler has in terms of subsequent oil bills?
Thanks in advance and stay warm.
P.S. If all goes well, I will be happy to provide contact information for all involved. I am particularly interested to see what the insurance adjuster has to say in this situation.
“I’m sorry, Mopar. This is just an untrue statement. I hope you didn’t get that from your installer, because surely he knows better.”
Uh-oh. Yes, that is what the installer said. He also supplies our oil.
I wondered if it would be expensive to run in the summer, and he said it was more efficient than having a water tank always full of hot water. This is oil, of course, not gas.
If you know anything more, please enlighten me, because of course we want our oil bills to be as low as possible.
Okay, back again with an update.
I just heard from the claims adjuster from the insurance company, who informed me that they will take responsibility and pay for the full replacement of my 40+ y.0. P.O.S. boiler. Yaaaahooooo.
There are some contributing factors, not the least of which is my oil guy from Boro Fuel who came to my house and assessed that while yes, the boiler is old, the reason the boiler broke is because of the stress this severely cold weather has had on it (cracked the boiler and flooded the chamber with water). Because I have a contract with Boro for oil, parts and labor, he was able to let her know that all of the parts were working, and this was not due to anything I did wrong. Bingo, that was all there was to it.
The insurance agent who set me up with Chartis Insurance (who I believe subcontracts the equipment insurance to HSB Insurance) is Paul Vicci at 201-227-1800×109. Granted, I pay a fortune for my home insurance, but the added equipment coverage was only about $100 — and worth every penny (and then some). Paul responded to the e-mail about this matter that I sent him at 6AM on Sunday morning by 8AM that same morning and walked me through the process. That was reassuring.
The person at Boro Fuel who was super helpful was John Pumilia at 917-299-8425. Professional, straight shooter.
I know there are a lot of opinions about what kind of boiler to get, and if oil or gas is the best option, but I went with the Peerless ECT – 4 with an 8 gallon coil for domestic hot water. Cost is $7050. HEAT USA (my fuel buyer coop shopped this price and said it was fair).
So that’s it, new boiler being installed on Thursday, and I am feeling kinda lucky right about now.
Thanks all.
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I’m sorry, Mopar. This is just an untrue statement. I hope you didn’t get that from your installer, because surely he knows better.
Tankless coils are a cheap installation, but are just about the worst way to make hot water today. You have to constantly maintain a very high minimum temperature in your boiler to keep the coil at the ready and most of that heat is wasted, especially in the off-heating season.
How large is the boiler?
The boiler is Peerless.
I put in a new oil boiler in November. I used my oil company, Nu-Lite. They do all kinds of plumbing and have three master’s licenses. They are terrific. They gave me a couple of choices, with everything broken down in the contract — makes, models, materials, how they would arrange the pipes, etc. It’s middle of the road and cost $6500. With oil, it is most effecient and cost effective tk heat the water with a coil in the boiler, rather than have a separate hot water tank. There are mo permit issues if you replace oil with oil. You might not have time to do gas.
no one will touch the job until the asbestos is removed. Sounds like you are better off doing actual work until the spring, unless you want to temporarily re-insulate.
Agree gas-fired mod-con boiler is the best way to go, but can’t see your insurance paying for thet.
Changing out a boiler require filing, it also requires an asbestos report as well as asbestos removal, bringing the boiler room up to code, a final inspection by the plumbing division and ultimately a signoff. If you purchased insurance which covers you for code compliance, you should be covered for anything related to the change out. Once you settle with your insurance carrier as to what they will pay, I would, if the carrier will agree, take the funds and go for a conversion to gas, hot water circulating zoned heat. This will require changing all heating pipes including radiators. I would hold off on doing the work until summer when plumbers more eager for work. The Baxi Luna HT380 combo boiler is small, wall hung and will produce heat and hot water for your entire building. If you are not in a position to do the above, I would recommend changing out just the boiler to gas heat with a separate instantaneous wall hung hot water heater. Rinnai and Takagi are proven mfgs. of quality wall hung demand type hot water heaters that should satisfy all your tenants. Insulating the roof is a good move, stick with it.
Good luck,
FYI: National Grid is offering rebates on gas furnaces — hot-water and hot-air systems. Also on indirect hot water heaters. I’m just putting this out there in case you really want to do a major switch-and-fix. See https://www.powerofaction.com/media/pdf/Resi_NY.pdf
Insulation will cut down on your heating bills no matter what kind of heating unit you put in. About half the heat loss in these houses is through the roof. It will also help in the summer, keeping the top floor from being an oven.