Reduced Security and no receipt
Hello, My husband and I recently moved out of 1 bedroom after our lease was up because our landlord refused to negotiate our rent and refused to investigate what is a potentially very serious safety issue. (We discovered a live gas line connected to our bedroom light fixture that was not properly capped.) We gave…
Hello,
My husband and I recently moved out of 1 bedroom after our lease was up because our landlord refused to negotiate our rent and refused to investigate what is a potentially very serious safety issue. (We discovered a live gas line connected to our bedroom light fixture that was not properly capped.)
We gave our notice at the end of September and paid through the end of October, despite moving out in early October. We did quite a bit of minor work on the place during our 12 months there and left the place spotless. The one potential issue was having done some painting without permission. Previous tenants had painted both the kitchen and bathroom bright colors so we didn’t think it would be a problem. Plus, the quality of the walls was poor enough that the idea of being charged to fix them seemed out of the question. Adding to this, our landlord was in our apartment at least half a dozen times and never commented on the paint. It was a very light beige which was not noticeable different than the original off-white.
After we moved out we tried repeated to contact our landlord via phone and email to ask about our security and any potential damages. We did not hear back until last week, Dec. 11, two full months after we moved out!
We finally got the check back and our landlord took out $800 from our security to repaint the walls that we painted. It is suspect to me that it would cost so much to paint a third of the 560 sq. ft apartment. Plus, she has yet to provide us with any documentation or receipts.
Here are my questions:
– What are our rights if she does not provide proper documentation on repairs?
– Are there laws on landlords having to repaint every x years? The apartment was not painted when we moved in and I wonder when it was last painted. Is there any way to prove that the walls NEEDED to be repainted anyway and that therefore we should not be obligated to pay for it.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
BTW, in case it’s at all unclear, jenepel is indeed the landlord in question.
Apologies for the absence. I had no idea how far this would unravel and was attempting to enjoy the holidays.
We now have quite the spectacle, involving both the landlord, yes, hi M, and the presumably good-intentioned but ill-informed real estate agent.
On the walls and deposit:
We would have happily repainted them ourselves. HAPPILY. We reached out to LL about any repairs/maint. needed and heard radio silence. It was vacant for a month while we were still paying rent.
Instead we were left entirely in the dark for TWO MONTHS before getting any info on our deposit. We are STILL WAITING for documentation! LL says it is currently in the mail.
Furthermore:
– Landlord did agree to a $100 rent reduction but later RENEGED the offer after finding out she did not get approved for home refinancing.
– As far as my husband and I and the other tenant are aware, no one QUALIFIED to inspect the gas line ever did so. Illegal contractors (who btw told us “this is really, really bad” when observing the leaking gas) don’t count.
Those are the facts, folks.
This has been one of the best forum threads ever! So many twists and turns…
Hello,
My name is Colin Meth and I am the agent who rents apartments for these landlords, and the one who rented to the original posters. I think this blog has gotten a little out of hand. The references to these landlords as cheap or D*ckheads couldn’t possibly be further from the truth. They are some of the nicest and most reasonable people around. With that said, I also feel the tenants are nice people who in this particular instance just happened to be seeing only their side.
Regarding the gas leak ;
1)It was investigated by the landlords
2)Ultimately it ended up being a faulty knob on the stove which has since been replaced.
3)It was not a gas line running to a light fixture at all, and I don’t even understand that comment. Lights run on electricity, not gas. Who “discovered” this.
For the sake of context, this is a beautifully maintained brownstone worth a lot of money, which houses the landlords and their 3 kids. Would they take a chance on that?
Regarding the “refusals to negotiate rent ”
The landlords did agree to a rent reduction, just not the 10% reduction that the tenants were requesting. The October issue of “The Real Deal” points out that rents in Carroll Gardens dropped only 4.7% in 2009 and in fact I was able to re rent the apartment immediately for 5% below what the original posters were paying.
The tenants did leave the apartment spotless but the landlords did not charge them for cleaning so this is irrelevant.
The “quality” of the walls is not poor at all, they are in great shape, quite charming, with great detail. This is after all a 100 year old brownstone, not a modern building and in this context the walls are perfect.
Landlords are required to repaint ever 3 years, not upon re renting. The landlords here were well within the 3 years and all apartments in NYC are rented “as is” unless otherwise specified.
As for the landlord having been in the apartment and not commented on the painting, maybe that’s because they are nice, easy going people who didn’t want to make a big deal out of it and wanted the tenants to be happy?. With that said it is normal for landlords to want the walls restored to their original colors to make for an easier re rental, as all renters have different tastes.
Lastly, in NYC, $800 for repainting is not high, sounds totally normal to me.
Some people on this board may have an impression that landlords are big companies or rich people with tons of money and that pity should always be taken on the tenants. In small buildings in Brooklyn, many landlords are middle class folks with kids, mortgages and bills, which is the case here.
all of which goes to prove, once again, every story has at least three sides, and don’t get in the middle of a fight between two mad dogs 😉
Cgfan, Both of us are making assumptions we do not know are true. If it was just the bathroom I concede you have a point. Bathroom + Kitchen maybe a differenet story. In my old apartment the kitchen and living room were one in the same, no way to just paint the kitchen since it “Spills” into the Living Room. That leaves only the bedroom which may or may not be affected. What is the incremental cost of painting the bedroom vs. the whole apartment? Probably not much…
Either way, there is no way to know so we can only opine. I generally agree with you, but circumstances may be such that $800 is reasonable – thats all im saying.
Sorry, newsouthsloper, but I can’t believe that argument would stand up in court. Your analogy isn’t all that strong. Do you think that if only the bathroom was repainted beige instead of another shade of “off white” by the tenant, the landlord could then argue that he had to repaint an entire duplex apartment and charge the tenant a few thousand dollars? If you are trying to defend the $800 charge by saying that the landlord was forced to repaint the entire apartment, you aren’t making a very strong case. I guess by your argument, if fire damaged the bathroom paint, your insurance company would have to paint the entire house to be sure it “matched” properly.
I’m not arguing that the landlord doesn’t have the right to put the apartment “back” to the way it was. What I am saying is that the vast majority of small time landlords don’t charge vacating tenants for repainting a room that is a different shade of off-white unless the paint color is truly unacceptable, especially if those tenants have left the apartment in fantastic condition otherwise. And certainly, most would not insist on charging the tenant the cost of painting the entire apartment because the bathroom and kitchen need to be repainted (if they really did). If you think that’s typical landlord behavior towards a tenant who has otherwise paid rent on time and left the apartment in excellent condition, you don’t have a very high opinion of landlords.
CGfan,
The tenant altered the apartment. The landlord is entitled to put it back the way it was. Only painting 1/3 of an apartment may not be practical as the paint should match throughout. If the paint matched throughout the apartment before the tenant painted, then the LL should have the same situation after. If that requires painting the entire apartment – that is what the tenant is responsible for.
If you had a fire in your house and only 1/3 of the tile was damaged, you would insist the insurance company pay to replace all of the tile since the new tile may not match the old. Same concept.
According to the OP, the facts were that they had only repainted 1/3 of a 560 squ. ft apartment. The color they painted was beige, and jenepel argued that “the color did not show the apartment to its advantage”. In addition, jenepel makes a point of saying that if this OP is referring to her friend’s apartment, that landlord had done nice things for the tenant in the past (allowing use of the garden and sending up champagne).
Sure, the landlord is within the letter of the law to repaint, but is obligated to provide receipts and $800 for repainting 1/3 of a 560 squ ft. apartment is high. More likely, the landlord had the entire apartment repainted and charged the OP. Frankly, even if that is the going rate for repainting 2 small rooms, it still seems like the landlord was angry at the tenants and trying to punish them for leaving at the end of their lease. Unless the new paint was particularly garish, it’s hard to believe that the apartment was the worse for it. I bet had the landlord not felt betrayed, she would never have charged tenants for such a thing, especially tenants who had made an effort to leave the apartment spotless at vacancy. Most tenants aren’t that considerate, and charging $800 for repainting “beige” smacks of “getting back” at the tenants. Perhaps it is legal, but not something most small time landlords do on a regular basis.