Approvals Sob Story - Normal?
We’ve been in approvals limbo on our brownstone renovation since January, and have no clear idea 1) if this is normal, 2) if there’s anything we can do about it, and 3) how upset with our architect and expediter we should be. We’re not doing anything crazy – the normal add kitchen and deck to…
We’ve been in approvals limbo on our brownstone renovation since January, and have no clear idea 1) if this is normal, 2) if there’s anything we can do about it, and 3) how upset with our architect and expediter we should be. We’re not doing anything crazy – the normal add kitchen and deck to parlor floor and miscellaneous updates of plumbing and electrical. In January we received a “pre-considersation” letter from DOB approving a second kitchen and started talking to Landmarks. It took until May to receive the final go-ahead from Landmarks, after a lot of back and forth about the light fixture we wanted over the front door (4 months total). At that point, we were expecting a turn-around from DOB of less than 1 week with our self-certifying application, but learned that a full plan review was required. Architect has not been clear about whether this could have taken place in parallel with the Landmarks review or not. Now the plan review has come back saying the zoning analysis was missing and we need to have an appointment with the plan examiner to present this analysis – and are waiting to schedule this. We’ve been 5 weeks to date with DOB. So to my questions. Is this normal? Is there anything to be done about it? Did our architect / expediter do anything wrong, other than grievously mis-managing our expectations (e.g., not parallel processing DOB and Landmarks, not filing zoning analysis)? For months we’ve been upset at the lackadaisacal way they seem to be managing this job, but we’ve always felt that switching horses mid-stream would only create further delays. At this point though, we’ve been saying that since February… Any insight, advice, re-assurance, etc. would be deeply appreciated!
this is just the nature of the dob..get used to it…thier job under bloomberg is to disapprove jobs and generate fees
Do NOT have your architect self-certify anything, ever again. architect66’s post is right on re auditing…
It’s totally counter-intuitive and frustrating, but you’ll get through the process much faster by directly submitting for review.
To clarify – we did move the location of our kitchen to parlor level and moved bedrooms to the garden level, but did not change c of o/use/egress, nor did we make any changes to the facade/street of the building. Sounds like I got lucky I guess, but I felt even 4 weeks of waiting was a long time. I think our expediter did a good job of teeing up the process, and periodically calling landmarks to check status may have helped. Our architect’s self cert was audited by the DOB and passed fine..we didnt realize this even happened until we checked recently.
Landmarks review and approval is always dodgy. There are no hard and fast rules and therefore no certainty. Since every building is unique, every application is subject to a unique judgment. When you talk to Landmarks, they pride themselves on their “flexibility” when it comes to reviewing applications. Substitute “whimsy” for flexibility and you get a good idea about what the process feels like. I’m not at all surprised that they have been beating you up over a light fixture.
The Landmarks staff who review submissions are required to have Masters or PhD’s in Historic Preservation. Aside from that, very little experience is required. You may luck out and have your application reviewed by an experienced preservationist with a subtle understanding of context who is capable of giving you sound advice about the details and requirements for approval. On the other hand, you may have your application reviewed by someone very junior – fresh out of school with absolutely no understanding of what you are facing as a homeowner, and quite likely with a personal agenda or ideology or worse, someone who is a frustrated designer. Good luck if you get the latter. Sad to say, but these people do exist.
That said it is always a good idea to submit your project to landmarks as early as you possibly can.
Oh – and the DOB is worse, if only because it takes 2-3 weeks to get a 20 minute appointment with a plan examiner, and longer if you need to talk to someone higher up. It was probably not the smartest move for your architect to self-certify. I’ve heard that almost all of the self-certs in Brooklyn are being audited these days, thanks to the Scarano monkey-business.
Hang in there. I’m sorry that your architect isn’t giving you as much attention as you deserve – really – you shouldn’t have to go to Brownstoner for this, but it sometimes takes an outrageously long time to get an approval for work here in the city.
I should add one last thing…Ideally your architect submitted the project to Landmarks shortly after you approved a schematic design scheme, preparing documents and samples only necessary to attain Landmark approval. That way, during the months of waiting under Landmarks review, your architect would have time to fully develop the scheme and produce detailed construction documents, as well as prepare the DOB documents. If s/he proceeded to CD’s before Landmark approval then it is possible s/he wasted time by not taking advantage of the extended period required for filing. But, again, I don’t know enough details about how the job was run, so this is purely speculative on my part.
I’m an architect, so I thought I’d respond to your post. What you’re experiencing sounds like the typical experience at Landmarks and the DOB nowadays for what you describe. 5 years ago you would be able to get away with filing this work in half the time it’s taken you, but recent new filing requirements as well as public criticism of the DOB has made the process quite difficult and often lengthy. It is often difficult for architects to assess how long Landmarks will ponder your project before they respond and what clarifications they require. Depending on the reviewing person(s), it could be quick or slow. It is often out of the architect’s hands. The expediter has a bit more sway, though even they can only do so much to push along NYC bureaucracy.
I should note that 4 months to get approval for a light fixture is not your architect’s fault. Nor is the retroactive zoning analysis requirement. Landmarks normally responds to submissions on a timely basis (usually within 30 days), identifying their requirements for approval. If it has taken several months to issue these requirements, there is no way your architects could respond to their requests. This is all assuming that your architect submitted, in good faith, the materials they thought were required based on the scope of work planned. It sounds like a zoning analysis is unusual for the work you describe (unless there’s something else you did not mention).
Here’s a link to the Landmarks requirements in NYC, including expected time periods for reviews:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/faqs/faq_permit.shtml
You mention that you’re adding a kitchen. If this means you’re changing the C of O then the schedule you describe is quite common. In fact, you’re doing pretty well compared to a lot of other people. This process is usually quite time consuming.
Additionally, there is no way for your architect to parallel process Landmarks and DOB. The DOB will not even look at your plans without Landmark approval.
Before you read Pickles response and get upset with your architect, I’d ask pickles to describe the extent of the work they did. I can only assume that theirs is much more modest than the renovation you’re proposing. And, we don;t really know the full extent of the work you’re doing, so it’s a bit hard to judge.
I know none of my post is what you want to hear, but I’ve been in practice in NYC for over 10 years and this sounds quite common to me.
If you have further questions, please feel free to email me.
60designers@gmail.com
Sounds long to me. I just went through the same gauntlet, 3 weeks for landmarks (once plans and app were submitted) with the expediter calling them regularly to keep the process moving. That included time to respond one objection where they wanted to see paint color chip for exterior deck. Then less than 1 week for DOB alt 2 permit, architect self-certified. Used green light expediting, highly recommend them.
It seems more like the inept DOB to me (UGH!).