Visit from Consumer Affairs
Hey all: I called in a restoration and construction company (Basonas Construction) to do some minor masonry work. We had cut thru the side of the house to install venting for the new boiler, and to install a sump pump, and the holes were not neatly done, so I wanted them bricked up and sealed…
Hey all:
I called in a restoration and construction company (Basonas Construction) to do some minor masonry work. We had cut thru the side of the house to install venting for the new boiler, and to install a sump pump, and the holes were not neatly done, so I wanted them bricked up and sealed appropriately, and also there was a piece of bulging stucco I wanted fixed.
I’ve worked with Basonas before on some major seven figure projects, and I like them. And the owner likes me, so when I need something like this done, I call him.
When I bought the house early on, he did a parapet wall, sealed up one exterior door, and opened up and installed another, and for that I had paid him $7500.
This was a small job, a few manhours, a few bricks, a little stucco and cement, so the owner told me he’d just do me a favor. That doesn’t mean I won’t throw him a couple of exceptional bottles of wine, or some cash, or whatever, but normally he does large projects, not homeowner projects like this.
So here’s the scene. I’m sitting on my stoop. My wife is gardening in the tree pit. Basonas’ very well marked truck is in the driveway, and the worker is visible in the driveway doing work (Semi-detached house, the driveway goes all the way along the side of the house). .
A guy comes strolling down the block, says he’s a homeowner up the block, and asks me do I mind if he goes to the worker and gets a card, since he needs some work done. I replied that he was welcome to do so, but I wouldn’t count on the worker having a card, and that maybe he should just take the info off the truck.
Then I mentioned that Basonas was good, but not that cheap, he usually doesn’t do these kinds of projects, he’s doing me a favor, yada yada. Trying to help out a neighbor.
Then I go inside. A few minutes later my wife yells at me to come down, and there’s the alleged homeowner along with another large Hispanic gentleman, and they pull out badges and say they’re from the NYC Dept of Consumer Affairs. (Later I found out that they came into the back and started harassing the Hispanic worker, when my wife heard what was going on, she ordered them off the property and told the worker to keep working, all in Spanish, then she called me).
The big guy, who is barely civil, is telling me that Basonas appears not to have a homeowner contractor’s license. I explained that he doesn’t normally do small homeowner jobs and that in the past when I worked with him he had everything he needed in the way of insurance and workers comp etc. I was told he needed a license to work on 3 family and under houses. I reiterated that he was doing me a favor for free and that this was a friend of mine. I also was able to get Basonas’ owner on the phone and put him on with the inspectors. The original guy says that all they’re trying to do is protect the consumer, and if I’m not paying for the work, and I’m satisfied with the work, he’s OK with that.
The big guy says they have photos of the truck and that if they catch him around again doing so-called ‘favors’ for homeowners he’ll be up the creek. But in the end the work wasn’t stopped, no summons was issued, and nothing more happened.
I’m wondering if I should complain about the inspector who used false pretenses to gain access to my property. I’m also wondering if someone called them on me, like my good neighbors. I tend to think not, as a call like that would simply go to the DOB, and I have recent permits. Would a neighbor be sophisticated enuf to write down a contractor name, look up to see if they had a license, and call the right dept at 311? I’m thinking they were just driving around. Watch out!
in ny, an unlicensed contractor cannot enforce a contract against a consumer in a court of law.
bugleg,
You drank the coolaid and/or are one of the ingredients. A business contract only need willing parties to sign an agreement. It happens every day without DCA and is perfectly legal. Answer this question. Can someone obtain liability insurance for doing say sheetrock work and painting? The answer is yes. Do they need a license from the DCA to get that coverage? No. humm..? The DOB is the only one that matters when a home owner want to do work on their home. The DCA only provides information for someone who does not know where to begin when looking to hire someone to do work. I think there is more than one puzzle. Your puzzle just has big and few pieces. Some people prefer the more advanced models.
Pig, you have alot of pieces of the puzzle but aren’t assembling them quite right. The DCA regulates HIC licensees. To enter into a contract with someone for more than $200, you need to hold a HIC license.
That is the law. Has nothing to do with permits being required, or the DOB at all. You are of course right, with enough time and work one need not hire an expeditor, arch, or contractor. Just plumber and electrician.
And if one chooses to hire illegally (under the table), and there are no contracts, then I suppose one could argue they are not violating DCA’s requirements. But one is violating other labor laws.
I’m starting to feel like the sucker here–but the fact is NYC law and almost every building I work in require that I hold a HIC license.
Every day in this fine city folks decline to comply with the law. Under the table contractors haul trash, and some of them get fined and their vehicle seized.
Homeowners arrange for ‘artisans’ to renovate under the impression no permits are required, and get hit with stop work orders that cost thousands to resolve.
While not _every_ renovation requires a permit and licensed HIC, many do. To pretend that these things are _never_ needed is cute, but not really a reality-based opinion.
And without the requirements of the HIC fulfilled (Workers Comp, Disability and Liability Insurance) a homeowner most certainly is at risk.
Denton,
I think the confusion here was what the DCA was trying to achieve. If you have anyone doing work for you other than electrical or plumbing, they are an “artist” and work alone. You were never at risk of anything. Doing some cosmetic brick work does not require a permit. Also, since your house’s intended use is a one family, there is a world of work that “you” can perform without permits that would be required of a multi-family.
Hey Vinca, I think, after some input from here and elsewhere, they were just cruising the nabe. Because, ironically, the guy doing the work is a large legit contractor, he had a large truck with his name all over it. That must of attracted their attn. Also ironically, a neighbor of mine is doing some illegal basement work. The contractor’s van was close by but there were no markings on it. So there you go.
Bond, thx for comment. You seem to know a lot about the law, maybe the law is different for police than for other agencies (?) Certainly a cop can’t knock on your door and do the same. Either he needs a warrant or he needs permission to enter your property unless he has reasonable expectation that a crime is in progress. He can’t say he’s your neighbor to get on the property and then pull out a badge.
Let me say this – language is the key when navigating any bureaucracy. Look at the recent post to fighting a Dept of Sanitation summons. Or, since this post originated from Denton, look at his comment on the “open staircase” issue that keeps coming up on this form. Circumstances and key variables all play a role. Denton’s open stairs were signed off as acceptable by an inspector because, although recognized by the DOB as a legal two family, his intended use and layout of his house is a one family. Stairs perfectly legal. Not legal if they were in a common hall used by a tenant. Denton’s post here was about the DCA and how the person came to do the work for him. Not a business soliciting themselves to do work. If the DCA had a legal leg or any sort of authority over a home owner, they would not have to pretend to be someone looking for a contractor. Language is key. The inspector said “as long as your happy and not paying”. Only half correct. The grey area here is the truck present with the business name on the side. In the course of doing work on one’s house, as a home owner you can be the general contractor. You do not, by law, have to have a GC license. When obtaining a permit you do not need to submit a license. Again, with the exception of electrical and plumbing, you can hire anyone else to do all of the other work. There are insurance and liability issues involved, but that is another post. I’ll address the IRS and architect comment shortly. Skipping ahead to the hiring of someone to build say a brick wall. Not once are you ever required to contact, consult or apply for anything from the DCA. Let’s say my neighbor is a brick mason. I see him build a brick wall. I ask him to build my brick wall. We strike a deal. If the wall is a load bearing wall, an inspector from the DOB, repeat, DOB will inspect at the appropriate time. He could care less who built the wall as long as it complies with code. Now, you could hire someone without a license to GC your job for you. Here again, language is key. When dealing with the DOB, they are not the GC but the owners representative. Same insurance and liability issues apply. Now about the IRS. Comparing the IRS to the DCA is like comparing the Police with Traffic agents. But since is was brought up by bugleg, I will respond. Everyone has to pay taxes. Who prepares your tax return and how much you have to pay is a different story. Does a CPA, by law, have to prepare your return? No. If you use a CPA to prepare your taxes is there a guarantee that they will be done correctly and so you pay as few taxes as legally possible? No. Depending on language used, a specific deduction might be acceptable in some cases and not in others. So, the IRS had no relevance to this post. But it provided a good lead into the architect comment. Any person with reading comprehension skills and computer skill can design and prepare architectural drawings. So, in some cases, your average high school student. An engineer could consult or review the plans and provide the appropriate seal. Fee involved of course. So, if you think that an architect is required by law to do everything involved with home renovation, then yes you are a rube. For those who want to, by law, there is a choice. All the answers are at the DOB. Language is the key. Don’t be afraid. Lastly, If you are looking to hire someone to do work for you, you are never required to consult the DCA. You may choose to, but it is a choice. And, someone licensed by the DCA does not guarantee that they will do quality work. There is no inspection or regulation of the work itself. They only provide a place to make a complaint. Their main concern is that business with employees are paying the appropriate amount to the workman comp insurance fund, that employees or owners of business are paying child support if owed, and protecting the consumer from fraud. In that order and that is it.
Denton, actually they are well within their rights to act the way that they did. Common law right of inquiry as well as Supreme Court decisions are on their side. Enforcement agencies can use subterfuge. Their behaviour doesn’t really seem to fall into thug territory to me, I guess we have different views on thug-like behaviour. But take it a step further. If I’m an unlicense contractor and someone from the Dept. of Buildings shows up, I’m going to swear up and down that I’m the homeowner and just doing minor repairs on my own house. You seem to be the type of person that can look out for yourself, but if the situation was an elderly person being taken advantage of, I’d be annoyed that DOB let it happen. Seems like one of the those cases where no matter what you do, not everyone is going to be happy. In your case, it seems to me no harm, no foul. I hear what you are saying though, when you are a legitimate person, it’s annoying to be treated as if you aren’t.
Denton: I’m certainly familiar with unannounced DOB inspections…we’ve had two. The thing I can’t follow from your post is how the inspector appeared so quickly.
If the homeowner called in a complaint, I cannot imagine such an instantaneous response. Even a call to 911 would not be answered so quickly. So was something else already in progress, either between your neighbor and DCA, or DCA cruising the neighborhood? Did I completely overlook something you wrote? BTW, when DOB shows up, appointment or not, they show up in uniform, announce their purpose, and then proceed to question/inspect. Concerning the second time, the inspector advised that if I had not been home or answered the door he would have left a calling card requesting a scheduled appointment.
Denton, I’m not sure about that provision, but I know as a HIC that the license is required to work on units within condos and coops–as 3 Pigs correctly states, DCA is more concerned with Consumer protection than anything else.
I don’t think a HIC license is required to work on the common areas or exterior of a 4+ building.
Plumbers and electricians are licensed by DOB, and are exempted from needing a HIC license.