The Need for Construction Plans?
Hi. I need some advice about the necessity for construction plans. A partner and I recently had an accepted offer on a four story brownstone which we’ll be inhabiting as double duplexes. It’s a gut reno–electric, plumbing, roof, HVAC, facade, some layout reconfiguration, adding kitchens and baths. We are able to afford it since we…
Hi. I need some advice about the necessity for construction plans. A partner and I recently had an accepted offer on a four story brownstone which we’ll be inhabiting as double duplexes. It’s a gut reno–electric, plumbing, roof, HVAC, facade, some layout reconfiguration, adding kitchens and baths. We are able to afford it since we got a good deal as long as we keep the reno costs from snowballing out of control.
So far, we’ve gotten estimates from 5 different contractors based on a set of specs where I listed everything I could imagine we might want. But I didn’t provide a specific layout (since we don’t quite know it yet) beyond a kitchen and two baths in this unit, etc, nor did I specifiy the type of boiler or flooring, etc. The estimates ranged from 300k to 585k (for 3000 square feet).
Based on recs from this forum we are thinking of using Scott Schnall to submit BOD plans, but a number of architects I’ve spoken with have made the case for needing construction plans too. I was hoping that I could just hire an architect for some design help because frankly we can’t budget much more than 5k for architecture fees on top of Schnall’s 5k for submitting permits (including HVAC). I was hoping that an experienced contractor could work without them, but according to the architects I spoke with, that route will likely result in inaccurate bids for the job and a lot of change orders, which is exactly how reno costs can spiral out of control.
So now we are trying to decide whether to cough up the dough to hire an architect to draw up construction plans or just hire them for our 5k budget for design help and some guidance on choosing heating systems, flooring, etc, or whether a good contractor can offer the guidance and design help we need. Sorry for the length of this post!!! But I’m hoping that those of you with reno experience can share some of your experience.
Gratefully,
LucyBB
Happy to discuss the architect further – email me at brooklynrulz@gmail.com
I didn’t read much of the above comments…but one word of advice (that may have already been mentioned): Have your contractor sign EACH page of the blueprints at the same time as the contract.
Congrats Lucy! When you want to go bonkers on this reno, remember to breathe calmly, walk upstairs, close the door (if there is one) and scream your head off (expletives are okay)…then have a couple glasses of wine and you’ll be laughing/crying. It helps with the renovation blues.
🙂
Thanks for all these responses.
Schultz, actually we haven’t made up our minds to work directly with our contractor. If anything these posts make me lean toward using an architect since I’m not sure the potential $ savings would make up for the costs of making bad decisions or the time necessary to research the right ones.
CMU: I am pretty detail oriented and really like the reno process, but I have a young child and another one on the way and a full time job, so I have to be realistic about what i have time and patience for.
Brooklynrulz: Can I ask you if you were happy with your architect? If so, would you be willing to post his/her contact info? It would be great to work with someone who has worked with another client in a similarily limited fashion. And thanks for the tip about omitting finishes in the budget. We’re planning on sourcing much of those things ourselves which we hope will help to control costs. But spending three hours on the phone to figure out the right hinges sounds pretty exasperating. Wouldn’t a contractor be able to tell you how to hang the doors or at least how many and what style of hinges you need?
Very grateful, as always, for the collective wisdom of the Brownstoner community.
Lucy, you sound like you have already made your mind up to work with the contractor and just want validation for your decision.
I agree with the architects. My husband and I are graphic designers and originally did many projects in our house w/o an architect. When we did hire architects for later projects, it was a revelation. They brought discipline and insight to the whole process. If you want to save money and work within a budget, plan properly in the first place and proceed from there.
The tradeoff, by the way, is not only the money, but also the time: No architect means that you will spend countless hours picking out all of the details and finishings. I spent more than 3 hours online and on the phone just figuring out what kind of hinges we needed for our old, heavy doors: ball-bearing? 2- or 3-per door? 4″ or 4.5″ or 5″? It’s a full-time job. I’d do it the same way again, but know what you’re getting into.
We recently completed a (near) gut on a 2-fam, 4-story brownstone while working on a tight budget. It’s a matter of tradeoffs: we opted to spend relatively less money on architects so that we’d have more money to spend elsewhere (HVAC, nice floors, etc.), but it was very helpful to have the architects at least do the floor layout and one or two kitchen elevations, and they ended up costing us less than $10k. That, to us, was money well spent, as the layout is something that we would not have thought of ourselves, and it’s very permanent. Some things (like appliances, etc.) can be upgraded and improved later. When doing the gut, i’d advise that you focus on getting the more permanent things (plumbing, electrical, layout, etc.) done right.
One way that we maintained control over the overall cost was by telling the contractor to exclude from his price all of the appliances, fixtures, tiles, woodwork (moldings, doors), floorboards, etc. (Basically, his price was demo, structural, plumbing, electrical, floor insallation, new windows, walls, kitchen/bath installations.) As costs in one part of the project (say, the boiler) increased, we were able to decide for ourselves from where to save money(say, bathroom tiles).
I own a number of buildings, on which I’ve done fair amounts of work. I always cringe when I read a posting like this one. No need for a full set of Documents?! You’re considering spending at least 300K on the job?! Good luck.
Hi CMU:
I was hopng someone like yourself would chim in. You just need rough plans for permitting purposes. That is what Schnall does, but he won’t consult on layout or the best heating systems, etc. You would have to figure all that out on your own.
Lucy.
Ask yourself: are you very detail-oriented? Do you have a good idea about how you want the space to be? Do you have a good relationship with the construction company? If yes to all, you should be able to proceed as you wanted to.
I’ve not done a “gut” renovation, but in all the work on my house, I’ve acted as the GC and worked with individuals and never had a problem with no plans, I’ve just improvised as I went. Of course, I have an engineering background and a good spatial sense, and also did some of the minor work myself at night if I had to.
But I have a basic question: don;t you NEED construction plans for a permit?