sequence of renovations
Hi, We are looking at buying a brownstone that needs a lot of work. We are talking boiler, plumbing, electrical for starters. Is it an option to do the basics and wait on cosmetics or does it need to be done all at once? I am curious of experiences of people who have renovated a…
Hi,
We are looking at buying a brownstone that needs a lot of work. We are talking boiler, plumbing, electrical for starters. Is it an option to do the basics and wait on cosmetics or does it need to be done all at once? I am curious of experiences of people who have renovated a little bit at a time. Is it a nightmare?
It will cost twice as much as you think. Price it first. It will also take twice as long as you think. Trust me.
Wow! Thank you, thank you all for your ideas and experiences. We are so grateful for your advice and are talking through all of these scenarios. What a great resource the forum is. Sounds like either way we need to do our thinking and planning up front. I am sure I will be back with other questions.
Thanks again,
Marie
myplace
It’s cheaper to do everything at once. However, just because it’s an old house does not mean you have to demolish all the walls, take everything down to the studs, put in all new plumbing and electricity, then work your way back out again. Though you can.
Inspectors will tell you “all” the plumbing has to be replaced but this is not always necessarily so. Depends on the condition and what you want to do.
We’re planning to put in new electrical by prying up some of the floorboards and creating selected small holes in the wall, not knocking down all the walls.
Friends with very bad plaster were able to replace parts with drywall and preserve and put back the original trim on top.
Check out some renovation books. I recommend “Renovating Old Houses: Bringing New Life to Vintage Homes” by George Nash.
Caveat: We’re just about to begin, have not actually done any renovation.
Do the plumbing, electrical, boiler currently work? If so, they don’t need to be fixed. If not, ask the sellers to make the repairs. Or drop the price accordingly.
I am in the “gradual” camp, have been chipping away at a total gut while living in the house for two years now, plan to be at it for awhile longer.
We took on the garden apartment first while we camped on the parlor floor, and did everything 100%, working with an electrician and plumber who understood that we were living there and understood that we were working in stages. Plumber roughed out everything downstairs and left stubs in the wall so that we could continue upstairs later.
Then we moved downstairs and began working upstairs. We are currently working with a great contractor to get everything basically done (you know, walls, elec, plumbing roughed in, heat, etc.) and then we are going to move up there once it’s done enough to live in
(and we run out of cash)
Then we can get garden rented out, and start chipping away at the project on a room-by-room basis.
The way we are organizing this is in terms of what we can put off without ever backtracking or undoing work, and balancing what we can afford with timing.
We did the major stuff in one swoop, but left some cosmetic items to do gradually. Three years later we have barely dented the gradual list. I wish we had done it all at once.
We did most everything at once. For us, that made sense as we were totally upgrading all the mechancials, plumbing, heating, electrical. All the walls and floors had to be opened for this so finishing the walls and floors from a cosmetic standpoint was logical. The “guts” cost the most by far anyway. It was certainly an intense and expensive process but it cost less and took less time overall because we only had to do each piece once. We also saved on things like tiles and cabinetry because we could negotiate a better rate per sq foot. And lastly, our overall costs of filing for permits and architects fees were minimized because we did that one time.
Its not for everyone but it was the right choice for us. While there are some small things I wish I did differently, it had nothing to do with going the gut reno route. I would have made those same mistakes if I had done it over 20 years. I think it helps that we had done smaller renovations before so we knew what we wanted and what sort of renovations made sense for our life. If this is your first home, I would suggest spanning it out over a longer period.
If there is something that can be more easily parsed out – I’d say you could do all the “guts” and then just leave the kitchen and bathes roughed in. You can always install the fixtures and tiles at a later date if the set up is right. The risk with that is if you change your mind about layout after all that work is done, its a pain. You also have to pay more to have your contractors come back to do a seperate job than having them doing it while they are there for other things.
Hope that helps and good luck!
Myplace
I have a dual perspective on this, first as a home buyer, than as a professional in the field (Architect). On the home buyer side, we staged work based on use, really renovating areas immediately that we needed/used the most (in our case, home office space, bathrooms, guest bedroom (family visits a lot). The infrastructure was pretty sound ,no immediate electrical upgrades or plumbing was required right away. I do plan to completely renovate the master bath next as it isn’t really functional for our lifestyle, but for now it does work on a basic level. So the work in our case was driven by the intensity of use.
On the professional side, in houses I’ve worked on for clients, if you are ale to live in a portion of the house while work is done on other floors, it can defimnitely work. I did a house in which the ownwers occupied the garden apartment while the upper three floors were worked on. Then they moved upstairs and we finishd the garden apartment, which they then rented. As a strategy the major infrastructure items; plumbing rough/risers, and electrical upgrades were done while the house was unoccupied, as it required opening up portions of the house top to bottom. I would try and do this type of work immediately, if you in fact need to, so you can later on tap into the new risers for branch lines and new locations you may need.
Also, if you can at least on paper plan where you may need new kitchen/bath and electrical services you can get those locations roughed in, and time/money allowing, later do some of the cosmetic work to finish out those spaces. Make sense? Curious, will you be living in the entire house, or some portion, renting any of it? It really comes down to planning as far in advance what you WILL do even if its some time down the road. Set up the immediate work to allow further modifications with a minimum of impact on your life.
If the house is currently accessible or you have basic existing plans/photos, I’d be happy to take a look at what you’re starting with and discuss the scope of work you’re considering. Happy to assist.
Best Regards,
George
T: 917.647.2678
george@pulse3am.com
Hi Myplace,
I agree with Arkady, we have basically been working in sections since August.
So you know boiler is really easy (less than a day) some of the things we rushed through like replacing all our electrical, suffered from not being thoughtful. Such that placement of outlets, switches, etc are not ideal.
There are some things I can tell you from experience you’ll want right away (like a kitchen, or at least two functioning water sources).
Our second bathroom is going to unfold over the next year and we put the pipes up to a third floor anticipating a third bath, but that won’t be for the next 2-3 years.
Goodluck,
11218
I am in the same position and went of “gradual” renovation approach. So far I heard regrets from at least three people who went with “gut renovation” approach.