Crazy talk?
OK, to make a long story short, we found this Victorian two-family on the Bed Stuy-Bushwick border that we LOVE. Has almost every original detail, including the original kitchens, baths, and a speaking tube. Beautiful proportions, light, closets, you name it. (Not as fancy as a Stuyvesant Heights brownstone, but we like it.) But then…
OK, to make a long story short, we found this Victorian two-family on the Bed Stuy-Bushwick border that we LOVE. Has almost every original detail, including the original kitchens, baths, and a speaking tube. Beautiful proportions, light, closets, you name it. (Not as fancy as a Stuyvesant Heights brownstone, but we like it.)
But then we had the inspection and found out it needs $80,000 of repairs. (Plumbing, electrical, structural, plaster. Has unknown amount of termite damage.)
We could only do it with a 301K FHA type loan.
Is this crazy talk? Altogether, it would cost about the same as buying an uglier house that did not need repairs.
(Um, except the mortgage rate would be 6.5 instead of 5 percent…)
Particularly interested to hear from anyone who has rehabbed an old house and Montrose Morris: Do all houses with original kitchens/baths — which we want — need this much work, especially plumbing, or should we keep looking?
When we turned on the water during the inspection, it started to rain. (Three fixtures sprung leaks.)
Are we getting in over our heads?
Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Vinca. Yeah, repairs are expensive. Shame about that. 🙂
It’s well within the conforming limits. Places in Bushwick and Bed Stuy are very inexpensive. Just tough to get a construction loan on a place that’s not worth much to start with and dropping every day. My mortgage broker is working on it, going to talk with her tomorrow.
Mopar, let’s hope that the house makes it through this rough winter; re the credit situation, it appears that our government is flooding the system with more capital, so it is possible you may be able to get additional financing. There are great deals on jumbo loans for 2 family houses as part of the financial stimulus package (3 families, no — but this could work out for you – you could get a 5.125% fixed rate….) Do the research now – check with Norman Calvo of Universal Mortgage in Park Slope for financing ideas. Norman is a wonderful man, very honest and hardworking and extremely knowledgeable mortgage broker. He knows everything about where you can find money. Give him a call. Unlike the many of the rest of us who bought in more fevered times, you have time to be very deliberate in your approach.
Vinca, thank you.
Thank you so much, Donatella, this is very helpful — both the repair info and the funding info.
With Heloc’s not being given out right now, boy talk about a freezing effect on the purchase of most homes in Bed Stuy and Bushwick — because I have yet to see a single house in these areas that do not require at least $20,000 worth of work, and most are more like in the $150,000 category. Even though the houses themselves are so affordable. Well, that’s the problem. And they sit there empty just getting more and more damaged. With this freeze on today I’m worried all the pipes will burst in the place we want, since they don’t have the heat going.
Mopar, the conditions you’ve described in your house-to-be clearly won’t be fixed with 50¢ hooks. That’s one of the most important things to understand before going into this—you can make only the most necessary repairs, but when you’re talking about plumbing, heating, and electricity, it’s still going to cost dearly. There’s a fair amount of discussion about over-the-top, high-end renovations on this site, but there’s no reason to misdirect you about what *you* will encounter with your own renovations, or undermine other people’s renovation experiences by dismissing true stories as the “horrors” of perfectionist moneybags. Renovation and repairs—at every level—are expensive, there’s no way around that. The choices will be constant between what you want to do and what you can afford to do. I urge you to do at least one more, and hopefully more than one, walk-through with a different contractor so that you fully understand what you’re undertaking and whether you can afford to jump in. Use the same approach when actually hiring someone to do the work—make sure you’ve gotten at least three bids, and that the line items are detailed rather than summarized so there’s no confusion on either side about what’s being undertaken and paid for. Not only the walk-throughs, but comparing the written bids will give you a lot of insight into who you want to hire.
I join Donatella and others in wishing you good luck and a good outcome.
Dear Mopar,
You have been on my mind after my long saga on my renovation. I really didn’t want you to be scared away from buying a house you really love, but hearing people’s stories can give you a sense of what rehabbing an old house entails. You probably have been scared by all these stories, including my colorful saga of adventures. I decided to buy a wreck of a brownstone by myself, having very little experience. My challenges also included having to deal with some inherited tenants, so occasionally I get on a roll about the drama connected with my own renovation. I am sorry if I scared you. I have to say that after all my hard work and periods of exasperation, that my house is pretty beautiful now in my humble opinion, and the Fellini Satricon cast which lived in my duplex is now on to bigger and better things elsewhere, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. I have to say that the surprises, i.e. stuff not identified by the inspector or by my contractor related to the following:
— Floors. I decided to replace floors in all apartments because they were a combination of: very damaged, patchwork repairs using very cheap materials, waterdamaged, uneven. When taking off the top layer of flooring, we found the reason for the bowed floors. In the case of the first floor, we found that some work had been done cutting into a support beam (needed to add beam of engineered wood). We also added additional supporting joists on first floor. Other floor joists had been cut into to add plumbing lines at one time compromising structural support of floors. We added additional beams to support joists. This is your non-technical explanation.
— Plumbing. I mentioned lack of venting due to prior cheap, incompetant plumbing jobs. Most of the plumbing had been replaced except for a stretch of the sewer line in the basement (probably 60 years old). This became clogged, putting pressure on pipe and stressing it and helping along some old cracks causing a dripping. It needed to be unclogged and replaced (replacement 1200 dollars by John Hlad, unclogging by Mr. Sewer 450 dollars, cleanup paid by insurance).
— Water. The entire back of the building had water dripping through the masonry. I had masonry on the back of the building (originally brick and covered with masonry). On the roof, however the the bricking was not covered up well with masonry and the wearing away of pointing in bricks had created channels for water to stream through during heavy rains. Had to have all that covered up and the back of building waterproofed. This reqired internal repairs of walls and replastering. You wouldn’t have this particular problem, but getting your house watertight is important and finding old problems is an issue. I also had to do repairs of skylights which also generously leaked.
— Electrical. I did rewiring for new appliances and lighting. Needed to sort out which electrical and upgrade for modern appliances. I don’t know if any of that will surprise you, but you will need a liscensed electrican to assess what is what with each outlet and make sure that you have adequate electrical for large appliances, including refrigerators, microwave, airconditioning, etc.
–Steps, others have pointed out that rickety stairs did not necessarily have to be completely rebuilt. That is true. They could have been patched up, but in many cases I decided to go for it and just get it done.
–Trees. I had two monstrous trees in my backyard. I spent a total of 6,000 dollars on trees. One huge tree was diseased and had to be removed (total cost 3500 to get the tree and stump removed) and several trimmings of the remaining tree, (which covers 7 properties) including dealing with major leader snapping after a nor”easter. Not to mention that even taking one tree down, my backyard was the Ft. greene community center for squirrels (one of which got into my place, bad, bad Rocky).
Well, that’s my story. I think it helps to have a HELOC and only use for emergencies. I also think it is helpful to have some funds put aside for emergencies if you can handle it.
Good luck what every you decide to do, Mogar. I wish you good fortune and a lot of happiness. Please come to Brownstoner with questions. People try to help one another on the Forum. I got a lot of help.
Sincerely,
Donatella
I agree with eman1234, a 80K estimate from a home inspector equals min. 200K interior repair work right off the bat. Bet the porch is rotting and the roof hasn’t been done in forever. But hey, if you dig a project and love the house and neighborhood, go for it.
Curious what people do when they uncover unexpected problems that have to be taken care of and they don’t happen to have half a million stashed away under the mattress. Curious also to hear the gory details of what you uncovered, vanburenproud. Rotted-away beams? What about the plumbing and electricity? Thanks, everyone.
Um, CMU, I am in your price range, taste and lifestyle wise. We are living in our house while we renovate, and expected to have a story like yours. We came across structural damage/issues with electricity/plumbing problems that couldn’t be ignored.