Security Deposit
Thank you all in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate any advice. My wife and I recently left a 2 bedroom apartment in Park Slope after living there for 1 year. Our rent was $3200 per month, the security deposit was $6400. The landlord just returned our security deposit – minus $2500 for damages….
Thank you all in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate any advice.
My wife and I recently left a 2 bedroom apartment in Park Slope after living there for 1 year. Our rent was $3200 per month, the security deposit was $6400.
The landlord just returned our security deposit – minus $2500 for damages.
The apartment was in good condition when we left. I even went to the trouble of spackling over the holes where we hung pictures. I filmed the walkthrough with a video camera – the apartment looks immaculate.
However, in my landlord’s opinion, the apartment was dirty. Because of the work I did (filling the holes from hanging pictures), he said he had to have the entire place painted.
Also, he accused me of damaging the floors – ancient wide plank pine which were in mediocre shape when we moved in.
Here are the charges, no receipts were included.
Labor – $900
Supplies $160
Floor – $525
I was also charged for damage in the hallway. Our movers scratched the walls and the bannister in a few places- this cost us $800 in labor and $135 in supplies.
He also charged us $300 for carpet outside our door – I never noticed a problem there and it wasn’t pointed out in the walkthrough.
I believe we were overcharged for normal wear and tear.
Also, we endured construction for several months on renovations to the apartment beneath us (all of which was done without permits, by the way). This is why I doubt there will be receipts.
What do I do? Needless to say our landlord has issues, it’s really sad actually and it’s almost worth eating $2500 to never have to deal with him again, but I have a strong sense of right and wrong and this is simply wrong.
Thanks,
HCB
For those who insist that landlords won’t want to deal with court, I’d like to share my story.
I’m currently involved in a small claims suit with my former landlord over a $3,500 security deposit. I vacated the apartment over 4 months ago, filed the suit about 2.5 months ago, and I’m still not any closer to getting my money than when I began. The landlord used her legal option to defer the first court date (each side can do this once with no explanation), and I’m going to head back next week. I have a feeling she’ll also use her option to request a judge (instead of an arbitrator), which means the date could be rescheduled several times as the judge only sees a small number of cases per night. Once I make it through that and win (there’s no question that she’s in the wrong – she never even attempted to get me a list of damages or an explanation for keeping the money), then I still have to fight to actually collect the money.
The legal system in NY is very easy on landlords for withholding security deposits – there’s really not any incentive for them to give you the money back. If they sit around and wait, they probably get to hang on to the money for 6 months and if you have the time and energy to fight it, will probably face almost no punitive damages for doing so. Some states charge double or triple damages, but NY is not one of those states.
Just keep it in mind. I’m not advocating skipping your last month’s rent, but beware that landlords have no reason to fear a letter from the court.
Thanks, Denton. Your clarification makes sense. We’re probably the only two still reading this thread. One response to your collection point. I think the tenant, upon winning a judgment, can docket the judgment and it swerves as a lien on the property (which the landlord will want to clear by paying, and will have to clear in order to borrow, refinance or transfer the property). That’s pretty good protection. A landlord who obtains a judgment against a tenant who damages the apartment beyond wear and tear while living out the deposit, may find the tenant has no property upon which to place a judgment lien.
I think in the end it is easy for a tenant to spot a problem landlord long before move out (and for a landlord to spot a problem tenant). The case you cite and HCB’s case are both exdamples of this. I think it is excessive to counsel living out the deposit in every case. I simply think it is wrong to counsel that tenants in every case should deplete the security and put landlords at the real risk of not being able to be made whole for real damage to their property. With a problem landlord, perhaps all bets are off. But in the absence of any reason to think there will be a problem, I just disagree with your counsel.
Slopefarm, if you’re still reading this, I apologize for what I wrote. I quoted you but it seems the actual quote didn’t show up. I think that’s an html stoner issue. You said
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I think it ultimately comes down to deciding whether you want to put the time and effort into litigating this thing yourself in Housing Court, or let it slide.
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The same thing happened with an Arkady quote, it disappeared… anyway…
Then I answered your above quote by saying:
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That’s what the landlord is counting on. You probably will (let it slide), and that means you paid an extra $200 per month in rent. And he’ll give it to the next tenant too. And so on.”
OK?
Something else that went unmentioned:
You (the tenant) can win in small claims court, but guess what, you still haven’t got your money! Small Claims court will not enforce a judgment against the loser. You will have to enforce the judgment yourself, which in fact means you will have to hire a Marshall to collect it, at whatever commission they charge.
Regarding this in NYC law:
“if the tenant honored the terms and conditions of the lease and left the apartment in the same condition as it was when rented, except for normal wear”
What’s considered “normal wear” covers a LOT, in the eyes of the court. Simply tell the guy you’ll take this to court and he’ll probably just give you your money. Because he knows the law is on the tenant’s side in these cases.
My friend’s mother, a landlord, had a tenant successfully declare water damage from some buckets sitting on a hardwood floor as “normal wear” in court. My friend’s mother had to return the deposit to the tenant. Most tenants have no clue they can fight this stuff.
Denton,
You wrote:
“Slopefarm has it exactly right when he states:
That’s what the landlord is counting on. You probably will (let it slide), and that means you paid an extra $200 per month in rent. And he’ll give it to the next tenant too. And so on.”
***
I did not write that in my post. More importantly, I do not appreciate being invoked and misquoted in support of your notion that all tenants should live off the security deposit, a position that I did not even agree with when I was a tenant for many years. As you note, the landlords on this site are pissed at what HCB’s landlord did. That shows that this is the exception, not the rule, and there is no reason to advocate that tenants, as a matter of course, breach their leases by living off the deposit in every case.
Wow. The fact that you filmed the walk through suggests to me that you feared this scenario in advance. I say get the lawyer’s letter and threaten action. Most leases clearly say that security deposits cannot be used to cover “normal wear and tear,” and the vast majority of the “damage” you mention seems to be exactly that. Also, I’m not sure of the NY regulations on this, but in many municipalities, tenants are entitled to a freshly painted place, regardless. (Which would absolve you and your wife of any costs related to repainting, assuming you left the walls as you got them.)
But, speaking as a former renter with one odd landlady, why did you just spackle the paint holes and not paint over them???
Give or take a few missing citations, pretty amusing where your imagination has taken you, Denton. You own your own home and a summer home, too. Please advise: how far does that leave you below the dread threshold you’ve declared for automatic ascension to slimy?
If you prefer to rant against slimy landlords, go right ahead. I don’t favor them either. But when it comes to both descriptions and good advice, you’re far off the mark. I’m a tenant, skiing the learning curve for the elderly owner of the building where I live…how unimaginably slimy is that?! If you could get past your own bias, you’d find it easy to recognize that the links were provided for OP’s benefit. Whether addressing the issue with his ex-landlord, or seeking legal remedy, he won’t accomplish much by chanting slimy landlord. Then again, in the glorious tradition of the no cure for stupid camp, he could follow your lead to screw early and often…but, of course, only as an advocate for pre-emptive safe tenancy.
Same thing happened to us when we moved out of our last place. I paid a lawyer $250. to write a stern letter stating we had videotaped evidence that it was left in good condition.
He’s not going to want to go to court. He’ll return the money.
HCB, you can tell I’m right. All the landlords are pissed!
All I can say, is that someone who’s lived quite a while in NYC, like 54 years, renting for many of those years, that it’s fair and square to live out that security.
Curiosity, I hear ya. I’m not advocating slimy tenants. This thread started cuz of slimy landlords, right?
If you live out your security, it’s all fair and square. You leave with your rent paid in full, the landlord has none of your money. Everything’s even and hunky-dory. If you let the landlord decide to give it back, you as a tenant have less leverage. As a tenant, you most likely have less financial assets, and less knowledge of the housing laws. As evinced by the OP. Therefore, you are fighting an uphill battle against a wiser wealthier adversary.
Vinca posted the following, which quotes:
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What is not mentioned in this lovely link, which you can share with your landlord, is that there is no mechanism to FORCE the landlord to comply with what is stated. You will have to, as mentioned by others, file suit in small claims or housing court.
The OTHER link posted by Vinca, states:
“If the tenant disagrees with the owner over the return of the security deposit or payment of interest, and if the problem is building-wide, the tenant may contact the Consumer Frauds and Protection Bureau of the New York State Attorney General’s Office. Where the problem is not building-wide, the tenant may begin a proceeding in small claims court. The tenant can file a “Tenant’s Complaint of Rent Overcharges and/or Excess Security Deposit” (DHCR Form RA-89) if the owner demands the tenant pays more than one month’s security.”
Again, the onus is on you to file suit. And if you win all you get back is your stinking security deposit. There is NO penalty to the landlord beyond having to return your own money!
That is why all these sleazy NYC landlords won’t give you back your deposit! If they simply refuse, you have to go to court. Chances are you won’t due to the time and trouble, so they get to keep your money. If you do, all they lose is the money they owe you in the first place!
Slopefarm has it exactly right when he states:
That’s what the landlord is counting on. You probably will (let it slide), and that means you paid an extra $200 per month in rent. And he’ll give it to the next tenant too. And so on.
Where are all the tenant advocates on this one??? lol.
I said it before and will say it again: I’m sure the vast majority of ‘Stoner landlords who are responding to this thread are decent people who wouldn’t do such a thing. In fact I’m sure Arkady is correct when s/he states
But I think many of the problems are with landlords who own a few buildings, not ‘Stoners who have an apt or two in their brownstone.
PS: I own a summer home that I rent out most of the summer and always return the security deposits!