Boiler installation: bad experience so far
We’re renovating the entire garden floor (where our boiler also sat, since we have no cellar) and have hired a heating company highly recommended by the manufacturer of the boiler to do the installation and relocation of the ew boiler to the back of the house. Reasonable price, but not cheap. Boiler is somewhat unusual…
We’re renovating the entire garden floor (where our boiler also sat, since we have no cellar) and have hired a heating company highly recommended by the manufacturer of the boiler to do the installation and relocation of the ew boiler to the back of the house. Reasonable price, but not cheap. Boiler is somewhat unusual (wall hung boiler that vents without a chimney, high efficiency), so it was difficult to get many quotes. Things were fine until they got the check for 50% of the cost. After that, they have had such a difficult attitude and are argumentative. They refuse to work there if any other workers are on the site, they only want to come in one time to do the entire job and hook up all the radiators and want us to place the rads in their final position, although that is impossible, as the walls and tiles can’t be done and the rads put in their final position until the heating lines are in the walls. But, they act like this is the first time they encountered an installation during a gut reno, which I cannot believe. To their limited credit they agreed to accomodate us by moving and demoing the old equipment, so the GC could continue his work until they could come in to do the job. When they came in as promised on Day 1, they demoed the old boiler, took delivery of the new boiler and HW heater and left. And then were supposed to come back day 2 and when I called stated first that they were unable, and then claimed it was because we did not have the site just so for them. On top of that, they expect most of the remaining payment before the work is finished and I am afraid they will walk off if I refuse.
Can someone give me some advice about this? Is this usual? My GC seems to not think so. I find them extremely arrogant. It has become a bit of a nightmare. What should I do?
During partial rehabs we sometimes need to remove heating equipment so that work can be done in a cellar for the owner while a tenant or someone remains in the building.
What we do is install a cheap 30-gallon electric water heater with flexible temporary water lines to the existing piping while all that is going on.
Good luck, ohiise. The Knight is a great boiler. They’re expensive because they’re very well made to conform with ASME standards (usually reserved for commercial/industrial equipment), and I like the SuperStor as well.
Well folks. Thanks for your kind advice. I found it all useful.
I asked my GC today if he wanted to deal with the boiler people directly (I firmly believe the boiler contracotrs are on another job and all these arguments, etc. are stalling tactics and that they will come around when they are done with this one). He brushed me off. I am going to try again. I may ask him if he needs to charge me to make it worth his while. He has been willing to talk to them to explain his needs and was present when they showed up for the demo and delivery. In the meantime, I am thinking of removing the hotwater heater and asking GC to get on with his part, until these lovely people show up to do the installation. At this point they are not returning calls for the last 24 hours. Anyone have any ideas for interim hotwater solutions?
MP, the boiler is a Lochinvar Knight boiler. WBN 80. Superstor Ultra indirect hotwater heater. 30 gall.
?
The GC on the job assumes liability for all workers on the premises whether or not he is in contract with them. This is how it works out in court, whether or not the sub
has a contract solely with the homeowner.
Should the homeowner say
” Well I can get a cheaper tiler directly rather than what the GC quoted me ” then the GC is rightfully at odds with this.
Who verifies this sub’s workers comp and liability insurance? Usually the guy comes in uninsured via the homeowner under the GC’s permit and should any of the sub’s worker’s suffer injury, the GC ends up being sued – think 7 or 12 million.
-With insurance rates as high as they are this one act can put a person(company) out of business. Not a very nice result for the accomadating GC.
Secondly a worker whose boss is not in contract with the GC is far more likely to sue at least frivolously as there are no bridges burned in the process. Bear in mind that people are less likely to sue – pell mell – other people they interact with on a continuing basis.
Even if the invading sub’s insurance has been vetted, the chain of litigation still applies.
Not to mention the chain of command on the job site has broken. You discover a nasty scratch on your tub. The tiler says ‘ Not I ‘ – the GC says ” Not me’.
Who replaces this tub? which basically means redoing most of your bathroom.
As for time slots the sub will pay lip service to the GC about scheduling (and vice versa) -everything seems kosher. A week later all hell breaks lose, one party is sitting by twiddling its thumbs , losing a day’s pay because of the other’s oversight.
The walls are tiled – something looks crooked, maybe its a bumped out tile line.
Tiler says ‘ not my fault, it is what lies beneath.’
GC says tiler is full of shit. my walls are perfect.
The homeowner says ‘ this is really becoming a nightmare’ and the road to hell is paved with good intentions!
Steve, that’s nice in cases like yours where everyone gets along.
But my point is it often goes the other way with the GC, who is well within his rights, saying “I’m not making any money off this sub’s contract, I’m not making any effort to accommodate them in any way.”
And the sub says, “Who is this GC guy? I have no business with him. He can go to hell if he thinks he’s telling me what I can do or when I should do it.”
Which is exactly what seems to be going on here (with the sub).
It happens and it’s often worth the extra money just to pay the GC to take care of everything.
OP, tell us what kind of high efficiency boiler you are getting?
The GC is under no obligation to do so, correct, but I’ve been in this situation several times and not only did the GC not have a problem directing a sub that I contracted, he appreciated it because it allowed him to manage his own resources and schedule more efficiently. Rather than sending his guys to the site only to have them sit because the electrical sub I hired killed the panel, he could send them to another job while the electricians worked.
For example, when I did my master bath renovation, I decided after the walls came down that it would be a perfect time to install split unit AC on the second floor. I contracted the AC installer and I asked Frank (the GC) to manage them. He was happy to do so rather than have four guys trying to work in my small bathroom. Both contractors were happy.
People,
The OP’s contract is with the heating company and has nothing to do with the arrangement made with the General Contractor.
The GC is under NO OBLIGATION to assume ANY RESPONSIBILITY, LIABILITY or right to NEGOTIATE for The Client or the heating contractor’s work in ANY way.
In this case, from what we’ve been told, the GC is a completely separate entity and it would be a bad business decision for him to come between the two parties at all in anything other than a lightly-applied gesture of good will.
As for payment, it is “usual” in some cases to expect to pay some percentage of the total contract as “down payment”. It is then often written in the Terms of Contract to pay up to another percentage of the total contract by the middle and/or end of the job and to allow a very small percentage, 2%-10%, to be withheld until filing/inspection/function of the installation is verified.
Steve’s right, don’t worry about that it’s not the GC’s sub. Let the GC handle the coordination. Things might get better quickly. If the GC is having trouble, he’ll be the first to let you know.
This is par for the course for the GC to have to work with other trades and many trades don’t want the homeowner coordinating because they see the homeowner as inexpert.
It doesn’t matter who picked who. They all work for you. Someone’s got to be in charge of the construction, what goes in when, who needs what done in which order, etc. That should be the GC, not you.