do we need a building permit?
We own a 4-story/4-family brownstone in Boerum Hill and currently live in the garden level apartment, with three tenants in the three remaining units. The parlor level tenant is moving out and we plan to join the garden and parlor levels into one apartment by building a small wall to privatize the existing stairs between…
We own a 4-story/4-family brownstone in Boerum Hill and currently live in the garden level apartment, with three tenants in the three remaining units. The parlor level tenant is moving out and we plan to join the garden and parlor levels into one apartment by building a small wall to privatize the existing stairs between the two levels. We also plan to remove three interior walls on the garden level. This would involve some electrical rerouting and moving one sink about three feet. We’ve had a certified structural engineer and two architects look at exposed joists in key areas. The engineer did the calculations and it is agreed that the plan to remove the interior walls is structurally sound.
We are considering doing the work without a building permit to avoid the inevitable time, hassle and cost of getting the city involved. We are very capable and responsible DIYers, so it’s not a question of safety; we’ll do it right. The question is: what is the risk of not filing the work and getting a permit, and is it worth it to avoid it?
If the permit is the thing to do we’ll do it. But we’d love to hear honest opinions and stories from all sides
We did pretty significant work without any permits (plumbing and waste line moved, one wall moved), at our GC’s suggestion. I was super nervous, and researched here too. I think it’s very common and easy to get away with it your neighbors and tenants are ok. We were fine, and we even had a pile of kitchen rubble in front of the house for a couple of weeks at least. Good luck.
johnife, if you compare doing this work to a “crime” you’re living in another universe.
Fwiw, there’s been a lot of this type of work around here and afaik not under permit. I know of one neighbor who converted his 2+1+1 to a garden 1+3 after one tenant moved out (a 12 week job); the other moved from the top floor to the new bottom. Of course that tenant was a long-time (12 year) “friend”, who we all know we should not rent to.
And I’ve seen several decks built so (and you would think this is more risky since it’s more public.)
Sure it’s a risk. Sure your tenants can be axxxxxes but if you have a good relationship with them it’s not likely.
But only you can determine if it’s worth it.
Id suggest getting the permit too but you are right that dealing with the DOB adds an incredible amount of time and aggravation to the project. Things CAN go smoothly but they can also get held up for the tiniest of adminstrative infractions.
You need a DOB work permit to do this. I know it’s only a couple of walls, but you still need one.
If you get a violation for doing work without a permit. In your case it would be 14X what the filing fee would be, with a minumum of $5,000.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/civil_penalties_wwop_factsheet.pdf
In your case your filing fee (the fee you pay DOB – not the architect/expediter) would probably be a couple of hundred dollars.
Is it worth it?? NO…Hire yourself an architect/expediter…It’ll cost you a couple of thousand dollars, and a couple of weeks time.
The DOB doesn’t take long to review plans (7-10 days). Otherwise, Have the architect you hire do a Professional Certification. You’ll get approved in one day.
If your house is in a Landmark District, that’s another story.
You don’t need a contractor to pull the permit. As a Homeowner, you can do work yourself. You will just need to file a Home Improvement Affidavit.
http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/hic1.pdf
Good Luck!
One risk of proceeding without a permit is that a neighbor who is tired of noise or dust will call DoB. DoB could then issue a stop work order, and you’d then need to get a permit and possibly also pay a fine.
As for the CofO, my understanding is that it’s ok to have only 3 occupants (i.e., owner plus two tenants) in a building that has a CofO of 4. I don’t know for sure, but i doubt that they could withhold rent in that situation. Could they withhold rent if you just left the parlor floor empty?!
You may, however, want to consider getting a new CofO anyway: Bringing the CofO down to three would likely get you a better tax rate, a better insurance rate, less obligations under the Multiple Family Dwelling laws (sprinklers, etc.), and other things. But changing the CofO would cost at least several thousand dollars. And i’m not sure if you’d want to file for that change without also filing for a permit for the work that you are doing.
Incidentally, one small downside to switching the CofO from 4 down to the 3 is that, whenever you sell, the buyer of 4-family does not have to pay a mansion tax.
Follow 7:45’s advice and your tenants can legally withhold paying you rent. Maybe not such a great idea?
Yeah, 7:45, I’m sure you’ll be so forgiving of law breakers the next time you’re a crime victim.
BS
Stuff like this is done all the time in NYC, mainly because of the mess the DOB is.
DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR TO A DOB INSPECTOR. They dont have a right to enter your home even if they suspect work without a permit. Do the work quick if possible and minimize your loading/unloading of materials at the building.
You will need a permit and also a new c of o
If you have an incorrect c of o the tenants can legally withold rent