Fulton Mall Abuzz With Free Commerce
Everybody’s favorite free marketeer, Iceberg, sent us these photos of the Fulton Mall he took yesterday. View these and other Iceberg originals on his Flickr page. We particularly like the Adam Smith portraits! Race Issues and Fulton Mall [Brownstoner]
Everybody’s favorite free marketeer, Iceberg, sent us these photos of the Fulton Mall he took yesterday. View these and other Iceberg originals on his Flickr page. We particularly like the Adam Smith portraits!
Race Issues and Fulton Mall [Brownstoner]
Regarding chain eateries–has anyone been to the Dallas BBQ behind Macy’s? Whoever the genius was who chose that location is making $$$ hand over fist. It is always packed packed packed. The prices are very reasonable and its a great place to go with kids after a day of shopping on Fulton Street. I’m suprised that more chains haven’t moved it there–it is a huge opportunity. The clientele is almost exclusively people of color–shoppers, civil servants who work in the area, etc.
El-04- I agree- no teardowns! But I don’t think residences are a bad idea.A lot of those stores do have offices above and I think office space will be overwhelming once the many downtown projects are completed. But it would be nice if it was affordable housing (unrealistic of me, I know). I guess my issue is that upgrading is fine if you are going for the clientele and neighborhood. But forced upgrading – by which I mean taking over an area intentionally changing it to appeal to entire other group, forcing out the merchants and clientele who have used the area (and successfully might I add in this case)for many years- I think is wrong, and smacks of elitism. I am happy Applebees opened up in Bed-Stuy. I’d love to see more ]and better stores and restaurants- as long as they cater to the neighborhood. Would I want Ratner to come in, tear down the neighborhood and put in a fancy mall to cater to the gentrifiers? No-but if he came in and upgraded, respecting ALL of the people who live and work here then yippee! And no eminent domain. That’s an entire issue in itself.
Regarding Fulton St buildings and their upper floors, you can still keep the stores below, just fix up the signs and the streets, to look respectable, and for the upstairs, why make residential lofts, isn’t there too much of that already, how about just some good ol’ office space above the stores, hmmm, like in other countries. Why does every place have to be housing? How about business on the upper floors. And any type of person or small business can be there.
Just restore the old beautiful bldgs and DON’T TEAR THEM DOWN, as they keep them in Europe for centuries. Some of these developers don’t care about preservation, it’s all about the mighty buck, but there is nothing wrong with that, just no TEAR DOWNS and less residential.
David, regarding Applebee’s: In a part of town that has had so few dining places available, most people I know in Bed Stuy welcome a major chain into the nabe. For so long the main dining places have been fast food joints, Chinese take out with no seating, and a few soul food places, also take out. There have been a few nice restaurants opening lately, but all of them have been two subway stops over in Stuy Heights, and nothing near the main Bed Stuy hub near Nostrand and Fulton. We can argue about the merits of Applebee’s fare, but I predict that it will set a record for sales in a year. That may encourage other national chains to think about doing business here, and finally, that may encourage private entrepeneurs to open establishments of their own. If I, and some of my friends and neighbors had the money and expertise, we would have opened a couple of places ourselves.
While the thought of a mini mall of IHOPS, Red Lobsters and Outbacks on Fulton Street is rather frightening on an aesthetic level, I betcha every single one of them could make a lot of money. Black people as a group spend a lot of money in all of these places, it’s actually surprising it took so long for one of them to get out here in the hood.
Just out of curiousity, those who think the Fulton mall needs some upscaling – what specifically, would you want to see there? If it’s a chain store – name names, nothing vague like “non urban-wear clothing”. I’d be interested, if there is any response, in seeing what people want. I’m also interested in seeing if the answers would make Fulton Mall any different than your average suburban mall, or even 34th Street. We talk about a Brooklyn identity – what would that look like?
Look at it this way-shouldn’t there be a place to get a penis-engraved gold tooth cover? 🙂
Well, I lived on Schermerhorn St. from 1980 to 2004, on Boerum Pl. I was about 2 blocks from downtown Fulton St. and I remember that
“facelift.” It was the cheapest, shoddiest work I’ve ever seen. They didn’t do more than add that ugly arch, pave the streets, add some benches and humongous bus stops. Everything else they left as is. It was a visual band-aid, hardly a major face-lift, and a lot of money went to help minority businesses in the area who were willing to stay there.Even when it was first done, most people from the Heights and surrounding neighborhoods didn’t dream of going there because it was considered “Black.”. I know- I walked downtown for years and saw maybe 1 or 2 other white people there too. I heard it from my neighbors. I saw it when my ex-husband and I tried to find an apartment and we were told that Brooklyn Heights were not for the likes of us. In Red Hook, in the 80’s, One person refused to rent to us because they felt a biracial couple would be too upsetting to the Puerto Ricans on the street. Of course, they were white themselves.True the City sank money into it, but many of the business there have been there since the 70’s because they have a market. By the way, although not numerous, there are a surprising number of residences in that area. And have been for many years. As for anonymous 11:46 am- the issue is not affordable clothing, food and housewares- there are plenty of places on Fulton St, and Crown Heights (where I live now) where you can get that. The real issue is that Fulton St. will not become the downtown district the city is envisioning until it is gentrified- because the sad truth is that yuppies do not go into places like Fulton St. because they are uncomfortable in neighborhoods that are not predominantly white. They won’t go to Fulton St. until the demographic is changed.
So now with the gentrification (and manhattanization of) the downtown Brooklyn area, I think Fulton St. will be made to forcibly change, and in a big way- especially now the hotel is such a success and is building an addition. There’ absolutely nothing wrong with upgrades and improvements but why does it have to be at the expense of working class people (and I’m one of them.)?
Honestly can you show me one proposal, or even informal suggestion that Fulton Mall be “flattened” or “steamrolled” – in fact I havent heard anything suggested other than encouraging residential use of the upper floors of buildings, many of which are seriously being considered for landmark status and 8.5M for improvements (cant do much steamrolling for 8.5M)
as for 40yrs of being ignored I must seriously disagree. The Fulton Mall didnt just materialize, in reality significant public funds were dedicated to making the pedestrian mall (a concept that reaks of urban renewall circa 1975) and there have been numerous proposals over the years to try to bring in the surrounding communities as well as hopes to make it part of a 24/7 downtown brooklyn – it is just that until the real estate market exploded like it has the idea of encouraging housing in the mall was a non-starter.
Fulton Mall has not been ignored for 40 years. It received a major facelift in the 1970s.
I agree with David’s points, especially the Applebee’s. Every time I shop in Target or the Pathmark at the Atlantic Yards, the clientele is predominantly African-American. Most people who oppose Ratner are white yuppies who take amenities for granted and are fearful that their newfound Brooklyn will resemble the suburbs that they fled after college. Old-time residents, on the other hand, are thrilled to finally have stores where they can buy affordable food and housewares.