The Great Dishwasher Debate: Miele Versus Bosch

We actually preferred the Kenmore dishwasher we had installed in our co-op before we sold it. It was one of the higher-end Kenmore ones, a quiet model. We got a Bosch in the new place, but we can't fit as many dishes in it and it smells weird too. A fishy smell. It's fine as a dishwasher. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. And we've already decided we'd get Kenmore again in the future, not Bosch.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:10 AM

OMG, 11:09, that's excessive. It's hardly a "necessity for resale". Point to one listing in Brooklyn right now that has two dishwashers.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:12 AM

I have a Miele only because it was only brand with a model (at the time) that I could cover with panel to match cabinets completely (meaning control panel not visible on front -it is on top of door).
If not for the 'visual' I wouldn't waste the money... I'd go for good KithenAid or Kenmore.
All the top brands are mostly hype and status and one-upmanship.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:15 AM

"All the top brands are mostly hype and status and one-upmanship."

Well said.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:18 AM

The Bosch is great. Noise is low and dishes come out clean. One major issue however is the racks. I find the separtors come apart and are impossible to put back together. It is also smaller and can't fit as many dishes. This probably has something to do with the noise factor.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:20 AM

I've owned both and specified both. For the average consumer, the difference is insubstantial.

The Bosch is quieter.
The Miele cleans perhaps a bit better, has more tray options, but isn't great for plates with wide lips.
A Frigidaire I also owned cleaned just as well but much faster than either (with more water consumption)-- that is, was 95% as nice as either, aesthetics aside.

I opted for the Miele in my renovation as I wanted a 6" kick, and Miele is more flexible in design options.

In chosing a dishwasher, I recommend going to a store with a sample plate.

--an architect in Brooklyn

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:34 AM

We just bought a Bosch and I have been underwhelmed by it. The moment you are the least bit low on jet-dry, the dishes come out soaked, the bottom rack often comes off the tracks and it smells.....I miss my old JennAir

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:36 AM

Same here, 11:36am. I posted above about the odor in the Bosch, too. It's gross. And the bottom rack does come off the tracks easily. It cleans the dishes well, but it's merely okay overall not great. I can't imagine I'd be all that happy with Miele that I'd want to spend 3 times as much for it than the Kenmore we had before.

The materialism in appliances has gone to far. It's embarrassing, like someone else said, to show off one's wealth so much in the kitchen. And what's even worse is someone who can't really afford it taking out big loans to buy overpriced appliances because the industry has convinced all of us lemmings it's necessary to our lives. Or "for resale", their best sales tactic yet. How about instead of buying a fabulous designer dishwasher, get a good quality mid-range one instead and give the rest of the money to charity. Better karma.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:44 AM

GE Profile dishwasher here...my first one of any brand, and so I really have nothing to compare it to. It seems reasonably quiet, cleans the dishes well. I just wish it would beep when it finishes rinsing and before the drying cycle, which I never use.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:44 AM

I just threw up all over myself...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:47 AM

watch out. it always seems that once blogs start posting about high end appliance comparisons they are starting the downhill march. i thought this blog was about buildings, not fluff.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 11:56 AM

I had two GEs -- a cheap one that lasted 12 years without a problem, and then a Profile that died in 5 years. I did not want to spend a fortune and a SS interior did not impress me -- wanted Interior space and fexibility -- my plastic interiors were always spotless. Heard problems with Kitchen-Aid and several people said Maytag was good - big mistake. Noisy. I will go back to GE next time.

And if you have a big kitchen and entertain a lot -- or have a big family -- I see nothing wrong with two dishwashers! I would.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:00 PM

I think paying more than 500 bucks for a dishwasher is whack. WHO CARES?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:04 PM

I too got a top of the line KitchenAid because consumer reports said it was the best rated and because my mom had one for years. They don't make them like they used to. The cycle takes forever, without jet dry the dishes are crusty -- I have to pre-clean any dish or utensil with anything sticky on it becasue the slightest remainder dries on it (egg, peanut butter, syrup, 1 grain of rice). & Talk about poor service. When I moved in and tried to use the DW for the first time, it was broken! Since I was under warranty, Kitchen Aid customer service set me up with local service companies. 7 failed appointments later I finally got someone to service it who would (a) show up, (b) investigate the cause of the problem (c) fix the problem. I bought Kitchen Aid because it matched my fridge (love it) and oven (love love it) but I won't buy a KA DW again. Next DW will find me researching THE WARRANTY before I buy and WHERE THE PARTS ARE MADE before I buy. Even though my new DW was broken, KA's warranty says "fix" and they will NOT replace -- unless you get a lawyer involved I suppose.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:07 PM

Don't buy the Fisher & Paykel "dish drawers," whatever you do. The concept is nice, and they look great, but the 15 year-old Amana in our old apt cleaned better. Even with jet dry, glasses are spotty/dirty.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:28 PM

We have a KitchenAid that we had custom panel put on from cabinet maker. No problems at all.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:37 PM

I've read that architects and shrinks have the highest % of depression and job dissatisfaction (altho dentist kill themselves more often). Now I know why. Miele vs Bosch? Really?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:39 PM

I own an Asko - It's the best appliance I've ever owned. (and I've had Kitchen Aid, Wolf & Viking.) I think it's from sweden.

Unbelievably quiet, beautiful (no visible controls) and a 7 year warranty. Dishes come out perfect. Love it.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 12:53 PM

anyone used LG? We are considering these as an option... Any info would be appreciated.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:06 PM

I discovered the 2 DW thing when we rented a house in the OBX. When you are entertaining large groups they are very practical. I wish I had 2 in my home.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:06 PM

We have a GE Profile dishwasher and it's fine. We have a Bosch W/D, and it's fabulous... except that the washer doesn't get the clothes clean and the dryer doesn't get clothes dry. OK, the dryer problems may or may not be because it's a condensation dryer. (argh.) But the washer? Should an expensive washer get your clothes cleaner than a cheap one?

Also, are there any other options, besides Bosch, for a condensation dryer?

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:08 PM

I think the only time you need 2 dishwashers is if you keep kosher and want to wash the meat and dairy plates separately

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:23 PM

Love my Miele.....love it...so quiet, energy efficient.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:25 PM

i have GE profile SS DW, oven, micro, fridge. got 20% back from sears when buying 3 or more plus rebates from GE. maybe spent $5K total. everything looks great and works fine.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 1:58 PM

Have Miele in my new condo... have not tried it as we have not closed yet: Brownstoner - can we have a post on Ovens now.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 2:06 PM

Consumer Report Quick Recommendations Dishwashers

Almost all of the dishwashers we tested scored at least very good overall and are available with stainless-steel exterior styling. All are from historically reliable brands. While you'll typically pay more for folding racks and other flexible-loading features, some of the tested models offer them for far less than others. Indeed, several high-scoring models cost roughly $500, rather than $800 or more.

While all tested models have a heavy-duty or pots-and-pans cycle, special cycles such as the concentrated Turbo Zone and Pro-Scrub on some Kenmore and KitchenAid models come at a higher price. But as we found, the KitchenAid KUDP02CR[WH], KitchenAid KUDI02IR[WH], Asko D3122XL, Amana ADB1500AW[W], and GE Monogram ZBD0710K[SS] did especially well in our trial baked-on brownie-mix tests using their normal cycles.

You can also save money if you're willing to live without the eye appeal and stain resistance of a stainless-steel tub. Other features, such as fully hidden controls, can actually make using a dishwasher less convenient.

The Ratings rank models by overall performance. Decide how much quiet you need and whether the kind of dishwashing you do warrants paying more for fold-down racks and other flexible-loading features. Then see our Quick Picks for high-value dishwashers that come from reliable brands.

Best for most; fine cleaning, flexible loading, quiet running:

• Bosch SHU43C0[2] , $580

The Bosch SHU43C0[2] is well-equipped and scored very good for energy efficiency. Consider the Bosch if you don't mind paying extra for its stainless tub and periodically cleaning its manual filter.

If a low price is more important than flexible loading:

• Whirlpool DU1100XTP[Q] , $435, CR Best Buy
• Amana ADB1500AW[W] , $400, CR Best Buy
• Maytag MDB4651AW[W] , $430, CR Best Buy

The Maytag MDB4651AW[W], Whirlpool DU1100XTP[Q], and Amana ADB1500AW[W] are all fine performers at a relatively modest price. The Whirlpool is a quieter and more energy-efficient dishwasher than the Maytag for roughly the same money. The Amana gives up some energy efficiency, but it costs $100 less, placing it among the least expensive models that we tested. All three are CR Best Buys.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 3:05 PM

Miele vs. Bosch? This is a somewhat TIRED bourgeois debate that was deemed IRRELEVANT a few years back when Fisher & Paykel's "Dishdrawers" came out.

Unlike Miele & Bosch, which offer products that are "high end" versions of ordinary dishwashers, F&P Dishdrawers are a completely new animal because they are essentially two 1/2 height dishwashers that take up the same space as an ordinary one (great for retrofitting). And they have all the high-end bells and whistles. I've also seen them installed side by side, and in smaller kitchens, I've seen only one dish drawer installed next to or under the sink.

I would never use another product before checking these out, and in a new, large kitchen, I'd use two dish drawers side by side, rather than the upper lower configuration (for ergonomic reasons). Your back will thank you.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 3:32 PM

Fisher & Paykel single dish drawer is one-of-kind for tiny kitchens, cost $800, nothing compares

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 3:39 PM

a friend gut reno'd his 700SF apt, has an 8ft x 8ft kitchen fabulously custom architect designed that combines the fisher paykel single drawer with these beauties from sub zero: http://www.subzero.com/subzero/description.asp?id=700BR
both appliances fitted with face panels that match the cherry cabinets

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 3:47 PM

Our Bosch just died. For years the soap dispenser didn't work. There were always filter issues (smell? clean?). Then recently the timer went and it would run all night if we didn't monitor it. Finally, after a party, we decided to give it a try and it flooded our tenant downstairs. Dead, dead, dead.

We learned our lesson getting the trendy appliances when our top of the line Neptune clothes washer died a few years back (remember them?) and we got caught up in their class action suit. Now we buy the better rated untrendy Consumer Reports recomendations.

Tomorrow we're getting the Whirlpool DW installed (CU Reports "Best Buy"). When we replaced the clothes washer we went with another CU winner (a Kenmore, I think). Got the clothes cleaner than anything and was much "greener." The Bosch was never better than ok.

BTW, washing dishes with a DW is greener than doing it by hand. Uses less water and energy (according to Consumer Reports). Technology like that makes me pleased to use a labor saving device.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 4:05 PM

I have a Bosch and it is quiet but it doesn't clean very well -- things often come out still a bit dirty. And the adjustable bottom racks tend to collapse after I've loaded everything -- it's really aggravating.

I have to agree with the poster who complained about KitchenAid's service (I have a disposal from them) -- they are AWFUL -- their authorized service people blow off appointments and can't fix anything.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 6:03 PM

I have owned both Miele & Bosch dishwashers in the last 5 years and I have had the opposite experience to previous posters. The Bosch kicked ass, the Miele left stuff on the dishes all the time. Didn't have smells with Miele or Bosch - Bosch dishwasher was a little louder than Miele - with both dishwashers I had the fully integrated models.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 6:31 PM

We were very steered away from the Fisher Paykel dish drawer by our very honest salesperson. Said he had nothing but complaints about it. In the end, we bought a Bosch and love it. After 6 years still just as quiet as the day we got it and cleans well. As for the two dishwasher thing. My sister in law has 4 kids and says its the best thing ever. You never have to empty a dishwasher and put dishes away--you just use the clean ones straight out of the dishwasher and put the dirty ones in the other one.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 6:36 PM

x at May 3, 2007 12:55 PM:

I'm sure the brand was CALORIC. Their appliances are in almost every old apartment, and the dishwasher is mind-numbingly loud.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 7:18 PM

Is it just me - or would it seem that those folks trumpeting one of these fancy brands for their low energy/water usage are the same people who have those big expensive shower heads and use more resources for 1 shower that my cheap dishwasher uses in a month.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 3, 2007 8:36 PM

I have the Fisher and Paykel dish drawers. I see them in many new renovations. They are fantastic. I have zero complaints about mine. They are by far the best dishwasher I've ever owned.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 12:56 AM

I didnt know this website was so elitist!!!

It gets to the point where the next topic is going to be >>

"Which is better? Petrossian or Caviarteria? You decide."

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 1:16 AM

I have Asko, which costs a bit less than Meile, but IMO functions just as well, and also takes a custom door panel (to match cabinets).

Two dishwashers would be nice for entertaining, but difficult to find space ina brownstone kitchen.

Actually, what amazes me is the number of homes asking $2mm-$3mm that don't have high end appliances. At these prices, you'd think the sellers could have spent a little money on appliances.

Of course, whenever the conversation turns to these kinds of things, we get the granola populists crying about materialism and how we should donate the money to charity blah, blah.

Get over yourselves yah commies.

Now, let's discuss something truly relevant like Viking vs. Wolf ranges! I like the red knobs on the Wolf, but Viking can be ordered in designer colors, yum.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 9:44 AM

high-end appliances are the new sports cars.

it's pretty lame.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 10:24 AM

I don't get what's so offensive about discussing high-end appliances.

This is a web site dedicated to discussing what? Oh yeh, homes that generally cost anywhere from $1mm - $5mm, and hundreds of thousands of dollars to renovate, not to mention the cost of maintaining a 100 year old property.

Oh wait. I see now. What you meant to say is that we shouldn't remind you that you need to be loaded to indulge in the whole brownstone fantasy thing.

Okay, sorry.

I forgot about that.

Silence please.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 4, 2007 3:11 PM

My husband just came upstairs and told me the hot-water tab on the fancy $1,000 kitchen faucet we had installed only a month ago has popped off.

I think that's the last splurge for pricey kitchen fixtures we ever do in any house! It's completely absurd.

Advice to anyone doing a kitchen reno right now: go for quality not fancy designer names, and don't waste your money.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 5, 2007 1:55 PM

ibook g4 actually. I use it for work so it was a tax deduction. :]

Posted by: Anonymous at May 7, 2007 11:07 PM

The Miele is without question superior to anything on the market in every aspect - hands down. If you actually want to have your dishes, cutlery & glasses cleaned - in silence mind you - then any choice aside from the Miele is a bad one...

Posted by: Anonymous at May 16, 2007 8:13 AM