Time for PS 20 Principal to Get The Boot?
In an article about how the Community Roots Charter School in Fort Greene is now harder to get into than Harvard today (play-by-play of the lottery is here), The Brooklyn Paper points to the unpopular principal at PS 20 (where a new gifted school is scheduled to open next year) as one of the reasons…
In an article about how the Community Roots Charter School in Fort Greene is now harder to get into than Harvard today (play-by-play of the lottery is here), The Brooklyn Paper points to the unpopular principal at PS 20 (where a new gifted school is scheduled to open next year) as one of the reasons why so many parents signed up for the charter school lottery. The sentiment echoes numerous comments on the schools thread we had on Brownstoner earlier this week, where even the school’s critics and defenders seemed to agree that the principal was a big problem. A commenter on Inside Schools says something similar: “The principal is a disaster. He is authoritarian, defensive, and almost incapable of taking input seriously.” And speaking of PS 20 in a recent thread on the Times’ Local blog, one commenter said, “The DOE needs to clean house.” So the anecdotal evidence against this principal is sounding pretty compelling. Let’s see if a poll backs that up—and then maybe someone who has a connection to Joel Klein can forward the feedback. At the very least, perhaps he can be persuaded to change his ways. If you live in Fort Greene or Clinton Hill, please vote below.
Ramona, I’m also wary of vilifying someone online which is why I was careful to make clear that everything I was posting was hearsay. However I think that when it comes to schools it’s important for parents to gather and share as much information as possible (while noting that some information comes from iffy sources) so that’s why I posted. I think brownstoner is a perfectly fine place to discuss Brooklyn schools. I agree that the poll is tacky and I also think your firsthand observation is more valuable than my collected hearsay. That being said, the overall picture that’s developing seems consistent with much that I’ve heard: that he’s an effective principal who simply does not click with parents who are seeking a more progressive educational style.
Heather – maybe I don’t frequent the same playgrounds that you do (we go all over Bed-Stuy/Clinton Hill/Ft. Greene) or maybe I do at different times, but I usually see tons of parents. I hear you about the “helicopter parenting” that plagues our generation. But parent involvement over the course of many years is probably the #1 reason that a lot of formerly struggling Brooklyn public schools have gradually turned into places you’d want to send your kid. Organized and committed parents also fixed up Underwood Park years ago and organized the Halloween Walk, just to name a few neighborhood amenities.
you don’t discuss a man’s career or academics on a blog that trades in real estate gossip and catching up with hot resturants.
my child went to 20 .he received a fantastic education and yes, it is a more traditional approach.
i’ve met the current principal. i do volunteer work there and the teachers are really steady and good. the kids are happy, class size is relatively small and the school only has 400 or so students- this compared to 1, 100 when my son attended.
it’s not the school’s fault that they’re prepping for tests- that’s no child left behind and joel klein’s hard on for “results”.
keaton is not perfect but he isn’t a monster and deserves more respect than a random poll .
from my observation the school is doing very well and is gathering steam. but if anyone doesn’t think that race plays a hand in this discussion they are nuts and naive and i’m white . welcome to the new ft greene.
As a parent whose child actually spent a year at PS20 pre-k, I feel qualified to comment. The school is academically focused, with a three R’s style of teaching and plenty of homework. It is not a play-oriented or project-focused type of learning, such as you see at a Montessori or a more progressive school like Brooklyn New School or 321.
That said, the pre-k teachers are dedicated and loving, the pre-k classroom is gorgeous and the children are mostly happy and well-behaved. I got the impression that the parents of PS 20 kids mostly wanted the approach they got, with uniforms, strong discipline and teaching that stresses fundamentals from a very early age.
In that sense, the principal is perfectly suited to the philosophy of the school. I didn’t find him to be frosty at all–rather, he is formal and a very top-down manager. But he feels that his approach is what works for the children at the school, and doesn’t see much need to adjust.
Firing him won’t necessarily alter the approach to learning at the school, and indeed may bring up someone a great deal worse. But clearly he needs to reach out more to parents or his school will not be attracting the kind of involvement and money that ultimately result in a great (as opposed to adequate) public school.
My child is no longer at PS 20 — ultimately we wanted a less stringent and more hands-on approach to learning for our kid. But that doesn’t mean the PS 20 approach doesn’t have value.
Okay, and again, maybe it is just me — but if there is such a caring, committed, and time-having parent body in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene, how come most of the people I meet at playgrounds are nannies?
I just feel a bit stressed about this topic, honestly. I’m not against parental involvement, just confused. How much is necessary and, like I said before, how much is a sign of our times?
If a few negative, anonymous comments about us on message boards were considered just cause for termination, then I doubt any of us would have jobs!
My impression of PS 20 is based solely on hearsay from the FGKids yahoo group, insideschools. org, and parents in the neighborhood. I have never visited the school, nor have I met the principal in question.
Here’s the highly subjective impression I’ve gained from these sources: this principal seems to have made some tangible improvements to PS 20 during his time there. However, he appears to have had difficulties working with the PTA and harnessing the energy of parents who wanted to contribute time, ideas, or money to the school. Contrast that with PS 11, where everyone always notes how welcoming and accommodating the new principal is. As a result, a lot of newer neighborhood residents are choosing PS 11.
Community Roots has become so sought-after partly because the administration encourages tons of parental involvement. Parents there are constantly visiting in the classrooms, volunteering, fundraising, lobbying elected officials, even teaching elective workshops for the kids. It’s a big pool of free and enthusiastic labor.
A vocal, committed body of parents can be a great resource for any school. A few years ago there was a wave of such parents who wanted to roll up their sleeves at PS 20, but some of them seem to have felt stymied by the principal’s authoritarian style. The new G&T program will probably bring in another wave, however. It will be interesting to see if he is more inclined to work with these new parents. I’ll bet the pressure to do so will be strong.
The secretary isn’t the one teaching your kid? They probably have a script, and why would that minor point matter?
As for the chair flying out the window, one fond memory I have from my elementary school is the principal standing up in the cafeteria with a baseball bat and telling the boys not to touch the girls, or he would hit them. Okay, yes, I am being sarcastic, but that did happen. So does other stuff. Not sure I’d make the judgement call based on those two anecdotes.
Here is the other part though that confuses me a bit: I don’t actually want to run fundraisers, write articles, or write (large) checks. I just want my kid to learn to read and be better at math than I ever was. And possibly learn to type and diagram sentences. Is that impossible? Because from the hysteria I hear, even privates where you pay them ridiculous amounts of cash seem to also require you to take them on as a second career.
Is this another symptom of helicopter-parentitis? Or is it a real requirement? Will my child be doomed by my laziness? What the hell happened to bake sales (the kind where you could bring something from the store, even), and kids selling candy bars?
We’re zoned for 20, were very turned off by our interactions with the school, and sent our child to another public school in the district. Walking by the school, we heard teachers screaming at the kids on a daily basis. A chair once came flying out of the window. A secretary referred to a child as “the body,” as in, we would need a utility bill, birth certificate, and “the body” to register. That was a few years ago; I have hoped that things have changed since then.
Leaving that experience aside, though, what we have found is that a principal who is engaged with the parent body does great things for the school. Parents who feel welcome donate money and time. I rarely set foot in my child’s classroom, but I run fundraisers, write articles for the school website, and, yes, write checks. We’re pretty tight on cash, but we try to help, because the PTA fundraising effort pays for a whole lot of enrichment and teacher support.
With regard to testing, the school my child attends is alive to the issue of overpreparation, For the most part, they do educate rather than teach to the test. Even so, 4th grade is a misery for many kids, mine among them. The 4th grade tests are de-facto middle school admission tests, so for several months, the kids are “educated” to regurgitate exactly what they need to do well. I hate it, and I hate what it does to my kid. And that’s in a good school, one with a reasonably progressive philosophy. I hope that we are able to find a middle school that will educate rather than teach to the tests, but the irony is that to do so, we will need our child to test well.
Anyone got a solution?
I voted yes cause I just felt like it
I’m late to returning to this discussion, and I don’t know a lot about education, but it confuses me that there are so many theories built around something that, at the root, has been going on for thousands of years in pretty much every culture in one form or another. Like every other parenting practice, suddenly there’s some kind of didactic “right” way of doing things. There’s either the Columbia Teacher’s College or No Child Left Behind, depending on your political preference.
While I think excessive testing isn’t great, I can also look back on my fairly progressive education and the things it neglected like grammar and typing — and rue the day. That makes me wonder a bit if maybe a little more route drilling wouldn’t have done me some good.
Regardless, without even knowing him, I’m sort of rooting for the principal of PS 20. From the numbers, which actually do mean something, I think, he’s done some good work. So have his teachers. So have the kids. And I don’t see anything wrong with no parents in the classroom. As someone said, it isn’t Dillon and they have no observation booths. (Note: those ARE cool… but by the time mini-Heather is 5 I am hoping not to helicopter her every waking moment. Dare I say, looking forward to it. Even.)
Sixyears, I REALLY hope that’s how you tell your students to pass the Regents, because the way you present it makes it simple. However, I suspect they are supposed to figure that out for themselves, which can take a lot more time, especially if they also want to express their own opinions.
We have another year before pre-K, but I think all of the choices are fine. What boggles my mind more is the thought of spending $20K for private, especially at that age. Even for $20K, they don’t teach them rocket science. And in the privates… (this is the point where I really don’t get it), the qualifications for being a teacher are less, as is the salary — and yet, the education is superior? How does that work, exactly? And why does it cost so much?