water heater question

Hello world,

I’m currently choosing a water heater, and the tankless models look the best for me, as I don’t have much space to install a unit.
I’ve already read this [article](https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2019/08/30/tankless-water-heaters-2) and [this one](https://houseweather.org/best-gas-tankless-water-heater/)

Still, can’t decide whether I’m going for gas or electric heater…
So, you’d be very helpful if write some pros and cons

thanks a lot

Guest User | 4 years and 7 months ago

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Master Plvmber | 4 years and 1 month ago

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@renovationnightmare, he’s talking about my company. I know what you’ve got going on there. Call my office if you’d like and we’ll get you sorted out quick. (212/718) 980-0909

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Thank you for the recommendation. I guess I just tell them about the dripping drip tube and hope it doesn’t end up being some giant investigative exercise that costs $1000s.

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Yes, I think someone who knows about how plumbing is supposed to work needs to do a site visit. I’ve heard of this place, I think it’s called gateway plumbing. Do you think they’d want to help?

Master Plvmber | 4 years and 1 month ago

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@urbandad
All the Taco cartridge pumps can be purchased with or without internal flow checks.
Using a recirculation system negates the functionality of a thermal siphon loop. Recirc promotes flow.

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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My guess is that’s the case.

Unless our installer suddenly materializes to address the dripping, it sounds very much like I need to get someone in here. If you were in my shoes, what would you ask the plumber to do or look at?

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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That’s true, but wouldn’t they normally put a check in the pump or a dip to stop the thermosiphon? I think the 008 has an integrated check valve. Looking at the mechanical drawing, I don’t really see any detail for the hot water piping, so perhaps it was improvised by the plumber.

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Very good to know. Thank you!

So I suppose if we have an unnecessary recirculating pump, it’s not that surprising we have an unnecessary expansion tank.

Master Plvmber | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Hot water recirculation lines don’t always benefit from a pump. On a simple system with little restriction, the changing temperature of the water is enough to induce flow upward from the heat source and create constant, albeit slow, circulation. Usually, a flow rate of .25 to .5 gallons per minute is enough to satisfy recirculation needs. For perspective, an open bathroom faucet passes about 1.5 GPM.

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Thank you. We do. My husband wouldn’t be able to live here without it.

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Ok I’m looking at this, but do you seriously have an elevator in your brownstone?

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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I’ve attached the plumbing drawings. [Hwh plumbing](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:SN6j:hwhplumbing.png.jpg)

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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30 seconds is not bad, the question is more how did they plumb everything, and why doesn’t the circulator work as intended. I’d be curious to see the design if you have it handy. Did you have detailed engineering drawings of this plumbing done?

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Yes it is weird, but no one seems to think it’s a problem. It takes about 30 seconds for hot water to reach the main shower both with and without the pump. 30 seconds was deemed pretty fast — good insulation! — so we just live without a pump.

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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I believe the only things under that insulation are straight pipe and possibly a shut-off valve or two. There are no check valves shown on the plans and I doubt they would have installed more than the plans required.

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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So when you operate the pump you don’t get hot water more quickly at the fixtures? That is weird don’t you think?

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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I’m still waiting to hear back from the installer, although they have a tendency to say everything’s fine when it then turns out it isn’t particularly if there’s no active dripping when they happen to come (“what dripping? looks fine to me”). That’s why I thought it would be good to get as much info as I can ahead of time, and my guess is I’ll end up having to hire a plumber anyway.

And, yes, it’s a taco recirculating pump, but it doesn’t make the water heat up any faster so we keep it off to save power.

hkapstein | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Is that a domestic circulation pump? A taco 008 maybe? There are likely check valves under that insulation. I don’t think we can see enough here to identify the problem. Unfortunately it’s not easy to see the problem here without more troubleshooting. You’d have to check if everything is actually in the right place. How come the installer hasn’t been consulted?

stickerhappy | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Cant you go back and ask the guy who installed it why it’s having a problem so soon after installation?

Guest User | 4 years and 1 month ago

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Urbandad — I didn’t see your last response. I would definitely like to be able to go to a plumber with a specific problem. The whole thing is so odd, because everything has only been in use for a few months, so I’m not sure how something could have failed so soon.