Patio Debate (Part III)
To follow up on the patio discussion. What would be a reasonable price to build a bluestone patio that is 13 x 17. We received two quotes (including materials). 1. Install 4 inches of 3/4″ blue stone gravel; then a heavy duty plastic cover; then metal mesh wiring. THen pour 4 inches of concere as…
To follow up on the patio discussion. What would be a reasonable price to build a bluestone patio that is 13 x 17. We received two quotes (including materials).
1. Install 4 inches of 3/4″ blue stone gravel; then a heavy duty plastic cover; then metal mesh wiring. THen pour 4 inches of concere as foundation. Quote is $8600.
2. Blustones over a 4 inch thick cement base. Quote is $4985.
Questions:
1) Is option one considered over sand or over a concrete slab?
2) Is option one better than option 2 (putting aside cost)?
3) Are these options priced fairly?
Thanks!
(Is this considered su
I agree with bond.we also have done 3 backyard with grable and sand base around the edge we use holder under the stone so blustone never shift from the place.YOu can have 1 more estimate from M.Hamid Construction Co.718-633-1500
Totally agree with bond above. We did a bluestone patio with this rock dust and its quite amazing how it holds everything together. For a typical rowhouse backyard I think concrete is overkill.
Polymeric sand has some type of a mastic, usually water activated, included in the mix, so once you put it down, you wet the sand and when it dries, it forms a chemical bond so everything is sort of locked together. The sand is less likely to wash away, paving material is less likely to shift, ants have a harder time burrowing in, etc. Basically it’s a glue included in the sand and was a great idea. I wish I came up with it.
Personally I don’t see the need to place pavers or bluestone over a concrete base, tamped rock dust works fine. You’ll have larger surface drainage area, it’s easier to change the shape of the patio in the future if you ever decide to, you can take out sections to create planting areas if you want. All of these things can be done with a concrete base as well, but it’s a lot more difficult. If I were having water issues in the basement, I would consider a concrete base, but that’s one of the few cases where I would bother. If you go with a rock dust base, just be sure that the contractor puts some type of edging or staking in on the perimeter so that everything stays in place.
I’m having a brick patio laid: gravel, rock dust, bricks, pitched 1/4-inch per foot away from the house, with a french drain at end of the pitch. I had just assumed that the contractor would use sand between the bricks, but he tells me he wants to use “polymer sand,” not regular sand. Is anyone familiar with this product? If so, opinions, please.
I saw your earlier post and agree with the sentiment generally expressed there that sand is better.
Thanks Bond. Is Option 1 the best way to do a bluestone patio? Is it better than a sand base discussed in prior posts?
I’m curious about this too as i’m in my early research stages. The only contractor I’ve spoken to offered paving stones (cambridge) over a 4″ slab for 4200. I have not even thought about bluestone, thought it would be very expensive. Thanks.
Option one is standard procedure for pouring a slab although a lot of companies would skip the plastic for an outdoor pour. The question on option two is are they planning on adding reinforcement, either with welded wire mesh, or rebar and they just didn’t go into particulars, assuming since that’s standard practice, why mention it? If they were planning on just pouring a four inch base, with no reinforcement, over soil, no aggragate, then you will almost certainly have cracking down the road and I wouldn’t go with that company. As far as price, as usual, hard to say without knowing certain things. What size are the bluestone slabs going to be? Big slabs tend to const more. Square or irregular? How accessible is the backyard? Are they going to mix the concrete on site, or have it delivered? Delivered tends to be better, you get what’s called a monolithic pour which basically means you won’t have weak seams where one batch of concrete sets up a little bit while the next one is being mixed. If delivered, how are they going to get it on site? Are they going to carry it to the site in buckets through the house? If so, are they going to protect the floors? How? Are they going to mechanically tamp the soil first? What pitch are they going to use away from the house? How are they going to handle where the slab meets the house (hopefully they say they’ll have an expansion joint. How do they plan on setting the bluestone? Is it going to be incorporated into the slab, or added after the slab is poured? I’d ask the contractor all of these questions and if they didn’t know the answers off the top of their head’s, I’d look for another bid. I’d also put into the contract that the patio has to be pitched away from the house. Sounds like common sense, but it’s probably one of the biggest complaints people end up having, where the patio actually funnels water towards the house. Depending what the pitch is now, they could either have to add more aggragate on one side, or excavate the other. Where is the lip of the patio going to end up in relation to the existing grade? These are all questions that a moderately competent contractor would know and take into account, but as we all know…..
Personally, I’m not a big fan of sand over a concrete base, due to drainage issues and many times the base will wash out and the edge pieces shift out of place. I either like concrete base and mortar joints, or rock dust base with sand joints. Don’t go with sand base and sand joints unless you want to start an ant factory.
Not an expert and I’m in the same boat trying to understand the correct way to build a pation for my situation. Seems like the consensus is that gravel and sand bedding will cause the least amount of trouble for small row house yards.
For #1, why would the contractor excavate, fill with gravel and then top it off with cement. Contractor does not want to excavate/dispose of the extra 3-4 inches I think is necessary for the gravel/sand combination.
I think using a concrete slab requires to mortar in the bluestone or pavers, what if you want to repurpose the bluestone in the future? This is probably unlikely after all the $$ spent, but something to keep in mind.
In my situation my main concern is water drainage issues and how a concrete slab might amplify the issue, even if I there’s a drain in my in my small rowhouse backyard.