Newbie Brownstone Advice Please
my husband and I are looking to buy a “fixer-upper” brownstone and have found some we like. being new to this, i don’t know where to start to find out how much the work will cost. do i hire a contractor before i put in an offer? should i get an architect before a contractor?…
my husband and I are looking to buy a “fixer-upper” brownstone and have found some we like. being new to this, i don’t know where to start to find out how much the work will cost. do i hire a contractor before i put in an offer? should i get an architect before a contractor? any recommendations for architects or contractors with experience renovating brownstones. we will need someone reasonably priced (of course) who can help restore original details that are hidden behind layers of paint, dropped ceilings, and wood paneling. most of the places we are looking at will need lots of work – not gut renovations but definitely work as big as moving a kitchen and intsalling a deck. any advice or leads are greatly appreciated.
In fact, I know of an incredible brownstone you should look at that’s not on the market yet. I know the agent/broker who’s preparing it to go on line who I’d be happy to introduce you to. It’s worth a look, trust me. I’d give you the info now, but obviously then it would be publicly advertised. The agent would kill me.
If you’re interested, email me at:
brklynmade@gmail.com
The last comment is a great comment for you – it helps keep things in perspective.
There’s a lot of information within the rest of these comments. However, it’s all speculative and/or based on specific experience that may not be applicable to what you end up finding. Generally, it’s good to take some of this in, but really the best thing is to buckle down and keep searching for a place that fits for you.
Have someone you trust who can look at it to tell you if there are any red flags – and get numbers from more than one contractor or architect on the place you think you love. Trust me, there’s a competitive market out there to get jobs for us (I’m an architect). especially contractors.
My advice is to first find the place you think you might want, then move on the rest of this… otherwise it’s endless speculation on how much it could cost, what needs to be done, how long it would take, etc., etc. BUT be prepared to LET GO of the place if it’s flagged by being out of budget range or something. it’s just going to take SELF CONTROL, DETERMINATION and PATIENCE.
And it’s not out of the question to have some fun doing it, too btw..
As both a property owner and contractor, I have some perspective from both sides of the equation.
By all means hire an inspector. The selection of this inspector must be done carefully, in that you are seeking a different opinion than normally requested from home inspectors. You must be frank with a prospective inspector regarding the guidance you seek, and in evaluating his competence and willingness to accomodate you.
Over the recent past, buildings that are in fairly good shape, either renovated by non-professional owners for their own use or just never butchered properties, are in high demand. this is why they are priced so high.
Conversely, “fixer uppers” that you refer to are much more affordable, at least on the surface.
This is because the cost to perform the types of repairs you outline are unsuspectedly high. So high that it makes no sense to buy these “fixer uppers”. If you engage an architect to “ballpark” the figures for you, they will by necessity use industry standard per square foot figures.
I anticipate that you will reject their estimates, because accepting them would make your prospective purchase unwise.
I can tell you from experience, that as a contractor with 30 years experience and all the equipment already paid for, I can undercut the formulas sometimes, but they will be by and large correct.
So typically the enthusiastic “newbie” rejects the data that doesn’t fit with the desired outcome, and seeks “more agreeable” advice/data that confirms their hopes.
One sympathetic listener/adviser who will expertly agree with you is the realtor.
“can help restore original details that are hidden behind” is code for wishful thinking. While you may look forward to easily revealing the concealed treasures that abound, your much larger expenses will be elsewhere, for trades aboout which you do not grasp yet.
There is no way to disguise the truth that it is more expensive to fix up a fixer upper in today’s DOB climate.
This is analagous to the truism that if we knew what our teenagers would be like, we wouldn’t have children.
So, obviously we have children, and “newbies” buy fixer uppers. It may be more expensive to fix up, but the initial price of admission is cheap.
There are some other advantages, such as ultimately you will have a more personal dwelling, more molded to your sensibilities.
Moving a kitchen involves permits, relocation of mechanicals, it’s almost as if the kitchen is the nexus of 20 different systems. Nothing fancy, you can spend 35K on a kitchen if every mechanical system was in place already. Nothing fancy, it is unlikely to cost less than another 25K to line up the mechanicals. And that gets you plain, vanilla, no toppings. And of course no HVAC, no moving any walls.
Brownstoners – Am I right?
I can walk you through our 24k renovation that has turned into a 150k reno. Not being snarky. If you want, email me and I will literally walk you through the end phase of a “fixer upper” brownstone.
andrea.etiene@bbdo.com
Renovating a brownstone can be a big job. I am an architect and there are lots of factors that affect the cost. If you have questions I would be happy to help. jorgefontan@gmail.com
You can figure an easy $200 psft if the exterior and structure is OK.
Whatever you figure, it will end up being more. Usually a lot more. Make sure your finances can handle it.
We were in your exact position almost two years ago before we bought our crackhouse. Agree with the above. Get an inspector before you sign a contract. He/she will hopefully be able to identify most of the really problematic items. You may get an architect to take a look at the place, but our experience was no one will give you anything like a ballpark figure for what this will cost. I scoured this forum for some sense of what a project should/could/would cost either per floor/ psf. So much depends on the state of the house and the choices you make. At the end of the day we picked the architect based on our comfort level with them personally and how well we thought they understood where we were budget-wise. We actually picked out our architect before we were in contract on the house (in a foreshadowing of things to come, it was a difficult contracting and closing process).
For us–and I think this is pretty standard– the architect was integral in the contractor selection process. They bid out the job to several contractors and we went through a several round process of meeting them all, tweaking plans, rejiggering bids and finally picking one and negotiating the contract.
We have been suprised at virtually every turn by how much things will cost and how long they have taken. There were some building-related surprises as well (which lead to significant cost increases). Do not underestimate the carry costs on a project, especially if you are dealing with LPC. Our project that is simply restoring original features (at least to exterior) has taken 6 months to get through LPC (still waiting) and almost as long through DOB. We still have not started work and I think we will be lucky if we are able to move in on the third anniversary of the first open house we attended.
I say all of this not to try to discourage you. I think that we will love our house when it is done and parts of the process have been really enjoyable. It has, however, been draining in many regards and has required a lot of patience.
Get an inspector. If the structure is sound, then pay an architect (about $100 or $200 or so) to walk through the place with his contractor discussing what can and should be done and how much it will cost. That will not be the architect you will use.
The three things you mention — layers of paint, dropped ceilings, and panelling — can be expensive things to remedy — if they’re extensive. Molding is difficult to strip, walls and ceilings are expensive to skim coat, prime, and paint.
You should get an inspector before you buy the building. He´ll advice you of structural damages that you might not see, tell you if your heating system needs to be replaced soon and so on. It helps to avoid running into major problems that cost a lot of money.
I don´t think you will get a serious quote from a general contractor they don´t have architect plans that show what you want to do. An Architect will also not be able to tell you right away, because every customer and place is different. It helps to have an Architect though.
Why don´t you describe the building and what you want to do, and then let people on the forum make comments. Many people here have done similar projects.
Be prepared to pay A LOT!