2-Family CofO
My wife and I purchased a 2-family home 2 years ago. It has 2 kitchens, 2 gas meters, 2 electric meters, is listed as a “B3-two family” on the DOB website, by the Department of Finance and on our deed, etc. We recently submitted plans to the DOB for an interior renovation, keeping the house…
My wife and I purchased a 2-family home 2 years ago. It has 2 kitchens, 2 gas meters, 2 electric meters, is listed as a “B3-two family” on the DOB website, by the Department of Finance and on our deed, etc.
We recently submitted plans to the DOB for an interior renovation, keeping the house as a 2-family. We need the rent to afford the home, pure and simple.
There is no CofO on the house, so we are being asked to prove that the house was a 2-family prior to 1938.
Was shocked to learn today that the DOF tax records from 1931 list the house as a one-family. There are no records of any conversion taking place between 1931 and 1938, or ever for that matter.
Side note: I know that the house was extensively remodeled in the mid thirties because they used old crates to shim up the new floors. One remnant had a date on it.
Anyway. How screwed are we? We have no way to prove exactly when the conversion took place and whether or not it was legal.
I’ve read all the archives, and I know this is a frequent topic. But any advice anyone can offer regarding this particular circumstance would be greatly appreciated. We are in a serious bind!
I’m very eager to hear how you resolve this. We’re in a similar situation, although we knew when we purchased our house that there was no C of O for two units (but DOF has us listed as a two family). Our tenant is on the top floor and we’re considering renovating to a more typical owner’s triplex over a garden rental. Are we crazy to imagine that we can get the DOB to give us a C of O for 2 units? Has anyone had experience with this? How impossible is it? Thanks!
thank you pig 3. I’ve gotten a lot of helpful tips from this thread.
we want our house to be 2-family as we need our rent. As far as I can see, it can only be proven that it was originally a 1-family. There is no proof that a legal conversion to two-family took place. There is no proof that it didn’t happen prior to 1938 either.
So, I don’t know if the burden of proof is on me or on them. Not sure why they care so much to be honest. It’s obviously been a 2-family for a longggg time, and both units will be much more livable if they let me complete the project.
Though not exactly the same, I went through a similar situation when purchasing my home.
I was purchasing a home set up as a two but with one electric meter and two gas meters.
DOB listed as a two.
Taxed as a two.
both irrelevant to original legal use.
Tax man used to walk around and count door bells on the building.
The bank and appraiser were equally clueless and of no help
Bottom line after several trips to the dob and speaking to city engineers and building commish,
it was sold as a one family. fine by me.
I was able to find the only record of my building from the original paper file from “the basement” going the same route on the 8th floor at dob. this was in 2008. no mention of NJ.
there was the original blue print and work permit to build the house (1880).
the owner tried the letter of no objection a year prior to selling to me. It was rejected
they tried a second time when selling to me and was approved by city engineer but rejected by the comish
why do you need a C of O? you can do work with out getting a c of o.
I expressed reserve about future work to the city engineer because of the issues with the way the building was listed and how it was actually sold.
You might have a case with the bank and appraiser and title insurer if the house is actually a one family.
My bank, Chase, agreed to appraise as a one and sell as a one. I removed a kitchen as if it were never there and configured as a one family as if it were that way all along. No paper proof to prove otherwise. still no c of o.
Brooklynexpediter, I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. My point was that some expediters have better maintained files than the DOB, with copies of THEIR OWN work and applications (NOT material removed from DOB).
“The fact is, some longtime expediters maintain material in their own files that can no longer be found at the DOB. Scott Schnall, on Atlantic Ave., is one of them: 718-875-2036. Brooklynexpediter, who often contributes to this forum, is probably another: brooklynexpediter@gmail.com”
I will not respond to this knucklehead allegation of stupidity and I take it as a full personal insult from this vinca guy whoever you are.
There are some ways though to deal with the problem on hand but HPD is not an option as I-cards are not there for 1 and 2 family so regradless it will not be there on record.
In such cases your best bet would be to get certified copied of assesement recirds or a copy from DOF property card an see when it was converted to a 2 family.
OP: Yes, DOB has files downstairs. Yes, it takes forever (and maybe even longer if staff is looking diligently). Yes, the folders, whether stored on-premises or off, are sometimes missing, empty, almost empty, and occasionally chock-full of old drawings (that’s a different discussion for another time). Your most recent post does not inspire confidence that you can straighten your situation out on your own. Who walks away empty-handed from an in-person DOB visit without first asking if there’s a supervisor or equivalent you can speak to?
The DOB has homeowner’s evenings every Tuesday in each Borough Office; you can try that next: http://bit.ly/fW3WAS
Call the office to be sure it’s scheduled, DOB contact info: http://bit.ly/aY2lch
Beyond that, what’s keeping you from consulting an expediter and/or architect with Brooklyn DOB experience? The fact is, some longtime expediters maintain material in their own files that can no longer be found at the DOB. Scott Schnall, on Atlantic Ave., is one of them: 718-875-2036. Brooklynexpediter, who often contributes to this forum, is probably another: brooklynexpediter@gmail.com
There are a number of online guides to researching your property:
Brooklyn Historical Society: http://bit.ly/gqGLfQ
NYC and Municipal Archives: http://bit.ly/ej2hT0
Columbia University: http://bit.ly/fn98BT
BTW, BHS has their next Brooklyn house research workshop scheduled for May 7. They are always sold out well in advance: http://bit.ly/hZiUlX
Just got from the DOB. They did not mention that they have a warehouse in NJ, instead went “downstairs” and came back saying that there wasn’t a folder for that block and lot. It took forever to get him to do that much. Wish I had seen the post about NJ.
Also went to the EDP about the I-card. Same building and floor, by the way. The were also not able to turn up anything. Again, he only looked in his computer.
thank you everyone. wish me luck.
The Brooklyn DOB archives are now in a warehouse in NJ. Makes sense right? They will bring in a folder for you if you request it but it will take a couple of weeks.